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Ched Evans
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Frazier Cranium
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:47 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

Piece written by Henry Winter in the Telegraph

CHED EVANS MUST ISSUE A PROPER APOLOGY

Ched Evans clearly needs educating in how to respect women. The 25-year-old striker has still not demonstrated any remorse towards the woman whose life has been trashed by his actions.

It will be a day of ignominy for English football if Evans can walk straight back in. Some at Sheffield United want their former player to be given a new contract. Others are horrified by the idea. Surely everyone at Bramall Lane must know the damage it would do to their reputation as a community club, a family club.

Before Evans can step on to a football field again, he needs to receive some counselling and to show some contrition. A proper apology, rather than that scripted PR disaster of a video statement, would be a start.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frazier Cranium wrote:
Piece written by Henry Winter in the Telegraph

CHED EVANS MUST ISSUE A PROPER APOLOGY

Ched Evans clearly needs educating in how to respect women. The 25-year-old striker has still not demonstrated any remorse towards the woman whose life has been trashed by his actions.

It will be a day of ignominy for English football if Evans can walk straight back in. Some at Sheffield United want their former player to be given a new contract. Others are horrified by the idea. Surely everyone at Bramall Lane must know the damage it would do to their reputation as a community club, a family club.

Before Evans can step on to a football field again, he needs to receive some counselling and to show some contrition. A proper apology, rather than that scripted PR disaster of a video statement, would be a start.


I actually fully agree with all of that but........

......ignoring the fact that this is a rape case (which, again, anyone with a normal moral compass should not do), if the justice system has run its course and the guilty party has fully served the time/penalty duly given to them, do they also have to subsequently show remorse and contrition?

The sensible answer (at least for Sheffield United) is obviously yes.

A bit of an "Ethics for Dummies" course, where the legal and moral routes clearly fork in the road.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Late Doors wrote:
Who's condoning it? not me and I'm far from indifferent or apathetic. It's about perspective and context. Fewer things make me angrier than distorted justice that differentiates between rich and poor. It's happening all the time all over the world but is that not supposed to matter because its either thousands of miles away or doesn't immediately affect us. That's what i call indifference and apathy.

Lest it gets boring making my same point several times it is for the justice system  to manage justice and be accountable for any violation of justice. If it lets us down as it is doing time and time again we should be directing our anger towards that system and not the game. That is what I call apathy and indifference.

Again i ask how come an unrepentant rapist  has been let out early? It's because our jails are full of  people locked up for petty crimes while the worlds real criminals continue to make war, plunder our wealth and steal our rights. I know full well where the real indifference and apathy lay.

it is also or at least should be an inalienable right in a fair society for someone to be able to earn a living after doing the time for a crime. I suspect "the game" would be violating some human rights by denying an ex con the right to work anyway and rightfully so.  But don't worry  those rights will soon be wiped away if these aresholes get another term. As long as we can deport a few foreign criminals that's ok then. That is what I call indifference and apathy.

There is a real and fundamental threat to our democracy, freedoms and rights if we shift our focus away from the real instruments of justice and expect sport to be our moral guidance and justice dispenser. If the fans don't want someone like Evans then don't go to the game, or turn their back on him, or boo him anything to let him know he isn't welcome. Make it as unpleasant as possible for him, take some initiative themselves. As for impressionable kids getting the wrong message then again i say get the countries justice system right and stop letting rich people off and throwing the full might of the law onto poorer people. That would be a good start in creating a good impression of the system. Stop passing the buck of justice onto sport.

Yeah I might have been flippant re the point about its fucked might as well get fuckter but there's an element of inconsistency if not hypocrisy . Why aren't fans up in arms about all the other shysters? One in particular, that  bent spiv down that there for instance where  our beloved justice system seems to be at odds with every other sentient being on the planet in deeming him fit n proper. How  can a justice system allow that.

Sorry mate you might not agree with me and that's fine ( don't like the disappointed thing though   ) but I am not apathetic or indifferent, far from it. i just think the law, justice, crime and punishment processes are way way bigger than football.


I understand now. Eloquently put bud. Re: disappointed. That's not a recent thing. I've always thought that you were an out n out let-down of a shitbag! There, I've said it. And get a haircut you fucking lout!
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29980279

As if we didn't guess this outcome to the whole sordid business. Shame on Sheff Utd!
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dock wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29980279

As if we didn't guess this outcome to the whole sordid business. Shame on Sheff Utd!


Morality is very low on football's agenda.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fartcatcher wrote:
Dock wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29980279

As if we didn't guess this outcome to the whole sordid business. Shame on Sheff Utd!


Morality is very low on football's agenda.


Inside right.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a sort of related gedanken kind of conundrum.

Even ignoring the obvious (but surely separate?) emotive and moral issues, I can understand why most people don't want Ched to play professional football ever again, even though his crime (presumably) had nothing to do with, well, his playing of football and I would question how much in the way of opportunity to commit anything similar on a football pitch there might be.

So, I was thinking....

Where do we stand on Lee Hughes playing football and, if I'm being really specific here, how do we feel about him (again presumably) being allowed to drive again (which is much more relevant)?

I'm not trying to be a git, I was just trying to logically rationalise what I might think is right and proper, if anything.

Apologies if anyone is getting pissed off at me: I'm not trying to deliberately cause offence.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Full disclosure: I do have a bit of a dog in that last argument.

My dad was killed by an underaged drunk driver back in 1965 who, through a technicality, served no time (rich daddy) and, at least to my knowledge, is still happily free and driving around to this day.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand this is an emotive issue - and everybody has their opinions.

What is the REAL issue here?

Can we examine the situation by taking a step back and looking at it from a distance?

Evans has been tried and convicted of the rape offence by a legitimate court.

He was sentenced in accordance with current sentencing guidelines and has served his sentence as handed down by the legitimate authority recognised and trusted by UK society, with his release done according to the rules in place.

He has denied and continues to deny his guilt of the offence - and I understand he is continuing with his appeal against conviction. This process is ongoing (with the latest info in the public domain).

As this appeal is ongoing, he will not express any remorse for his actions - as to do so will undoubtedly adversely prejudice his case.  Such a person in this legal situation can not therefore any form of apology at this stage.

(So now we come to his release)
If he was a traffic warden, shop worker, electrician, mechanic etc, would he be prevented from resuming work following the completion of his sentence?  What about if he was in showbiz?

Is the UK justice system not based upon rehabilitation of offenders?  If he was employed in any of the above, he would be encouraged to find work and rejoin society as a contributive member.

If society wants offenders (any offenders) to rejoin society as a contributing member, then the job they are suited for is a natural route back in to rejoining society - with the proviso that they are not employed in sensitive positions that may be compromised by the nature of their conviction.

Please note that I am in no way, shape or form defending Evans as what he has been convicted of is reprehensible in every form, but I am defending our established judicial system (which is not perfect, but is one of the best in the world).

The system is designed to treat everybody as an equal under the eyes of the law - irrespective of position in society.

If we as a society want to further restrict rehabilitation of offenders if the position they have is well (over)paid or are in a public position, then the system will break down very quickly as it will no longer be even handed.

I believe there were over 150000 objections to Evans resuming his career.  I am sure that Sheffield Utd would be very pleased if all of these interested and concerned people turned up to support the club at every home game! (They might have to redevelop Bramall Lane somewhat to accommodate them however).

One last but important consideration - if Evans' appeal is successful, and his conviction is quashed, why would society then want to prevent him from pursuing his career?

So, the REAL question is does the UK need a separate judicial system for public figures and punish them more harshly as a form of retribution or do we maintain the current "one system for all" system?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish I'd written that.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, an excellent statement Dalek

Perhaps another poignant point is that we now have trial by journalism and the internet.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grind, I did mention Lee Hughes ages ago in this, well it felt like ages, and the Oldham chairman explaining that the reason they allowed Hughes at their club was because he had shown genuine contrition for his crime.  Whether or not you believe that chairman is up to the individual, but Hughes couldn't exactly deny his guilt and therefore he HAD to show contrition otherwise he was a psycho!  Evans doesn't even agree he is guilty, so if he really believes he is innocent then he can't show contrition.  True, he could have, and his entourage, conducted theirselves in a more respectful way, and not hounded the rape victim.

It's not a difficult dilemma for me isn't this one.  But there again, he is only training at the moment, he hasn't been signed on or anything as yet.  

ps Grind, I'm very sorry about your personal experience in that.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frazier Cranium wrote:
Grind, I did mention Lee Hughes ages ago in this, well it felt like ages, and the Oldham chairman explaining that the reason they allowed Hughes at their club was because he had shown genuine contrition for his crime.  Whether or not you believe that chairman is up to the individual, but Hughes couldn't exactly deny his guilt and therefore he HAD to show contrition otherwise he was a psycho!  Evans doesn't even agree he is guilty, so if he really believes he is innocent then he can't show contrition.  True, he could have, and his entourage, conducted theirselves in a more respectful way, and not hounded the rape victim.

It's not a difficult dilemma for me isn't this one.  But there again, he is only training at the moment, he hasn't been signed on or anything as yet.  

ps Grind, I'm very sorry about your personal experience in that.


To be fair, I was only a toddler (I'd just turned two) and it was all I ever knew, although (obviously) it would have been nice to have known my dad.

It was my mum who I feel/felt (she died at 54) sorry for. She lost her husband at 24 having just moved "home" to a new city following a year's stint abroad (I was born in the US on an overseas assignment - hence why I'm able to be here now!), with family seventy-odd miles away, which was, well, miiiiles away back then.

She never remarried and, unless I was totally oblivious, she never even dated again.

Poor mum.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to finish off the tear-jerker - not something I think about too often, but probably should.

My mum was also in the car crash with my dad in the back seat of the car on the way to a social dance meant to cheer her up after a recent miscarriage.

Seat belts weren't compulsory back then.

Oh well. Stuff happens.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been hoping Angelina Jolie would consider me for adoption.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would mean Braddada.

It's only as you get older that you realise, or suspect you realise, you ideally would have been more thoughtful as a child.  But that's the point, you're a child and life is about learning how to be when adulthood arrives.  I can't wait to find out what adulthood is like
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frazier Cranium wrote:
That would mean Braddada.

It's only as you get older that you realise, or suspect you realise, you ideally would have been more thoughtful as a child.  But that's the point, you're a child and life is about learning how to be when adulthood arrives.  I can't wait to find out what adulthood is like


Me too.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jessica Ennis-Hill wants out of having her name on a stand at Bramall Road now if he goes back there.

Well luv you were less particular when you got sponsored by Santander, one of those squeeky clean international banks, now were you.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some good posts on this thread especially Daleks.

I just can't get my head around it being ok for him to play again (although Sheff Utd are damned whatever they decide because allowing him to train with them, never mind play again, is seen as vindication of him by the football club in the majority of people's minds).

I'm all for anybody having a second chance but again I reiterate to the gentlemen of the house that if you are in any kind of media spotlight and are a possible role model you shouldn't be allowed back on any kind of public platform. Try for a compromise, give him a job on the training staff or summat. He gets to keep his livelihood, but his demotion is a clear sign that what he did hasn't been forgotten. Surely that would send the right moral message, but FFS having him run on to the pitch with thousands of people cheering him on can't be right. Can it?

Think of all those child Blades fans who ask and have to put their parents in the unenviable position of explaining EXACTLY what it is Evans went to prison for. It's just an awful and sordid situation. Why didn't he just take a retainer wage from SU and sit back and think things through before going back training with them. He's shot himself in the foot by brassnecking it looking like he's not bothered about what has happened.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dock - A sensible solution you mention there. 2 years away his fitness levels will be shite. SU could issue a statement that they believe in British justice, he's served his time blah blah blah (usual shite) and that until his appeal has been heard they will offer him a position with the back room staff.


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