Archive for www.regdafishthinktank.com Here in the Day
 


       www.regdafishthinktank.com Forum Index -> Life in the fish bowl
bearing

The NHS, it's a fucking miracle!

As you know I suffer with an arrhythmia, probably the most prolific of heart rhythm problems due to it's incidence in the elderly and those with general heart problems. The type of AF I suffer from is different (although once triggered and firing away like a badly tuned moped it is no different to any other) in that it comes from a wiring problem and not a structural problem, my ticker is great apparently apart from the electrics. Anyway I'm a good candidate for an ablation so on Tuesday I popped over to QE in Brum to see about getting one done, spent about ten minutes chatting to the registrar who finished off by going off to talk to the boss about when they can fit me in, completely gob smacked when he asked me if Feb 25th would be okay.  

Snapped his hand off...
Heyho

Good post bearing. Glad you are pleased with the service.

Sadly the media nowadays thrives on the small minority of bad news the eminates from everywhere. It likes to get its teeth into a subject. Sadly the NHS is one of those easy targets.

It frustrates the hell out of me. I've worked in the NHS for 25 years now and am proud to work for it. That doesn't mean I agree with everything. There's a lot of incomptency and bad management but the NHS is full of caring and passionate people albeit frustrated. And that can't be bad. Long may it continue.
sheeps

Heyho wrote:
Good post bearing. Glad you are pleased with the service.

Sadly the media nowadays thrives on the small minority of bad news the eminates from everywhere. It likes to get its teeth into a subject. Sadly the NHS is one of those easy targets.

It frustrates the hell out of me. I've worked in the NHS for 25 years now and am proud to work for it. That doesn't mean I agree with everything. There's a lot of incomptency and bad management but the NHS is full of caring and passionate people albeit frustrated. And that can't be bad. Long may it continue.



So true regarding the incompetence and piss poor management.

But it is a gem of an organisation, when it's gone I expect a hanging of heads in shame and apology at the very least from you Tory voters out there.
smiling badger

Good luck with it all Bearing and hope that it goes well for you.

Cant fault the NHS recently for all that they have done for my mother.
Late Doors

Who can fault the brilliant NHS except ALL the political parties who kick it around like a political football. Look you lot, i keep telling you fucking useless incompetent piss poor management are everywhere. You ever tried getting a decent service out of BT for instance or catch the Transpennine Train service?
fartcatcher

Good luck t'B. I'm sure everything will be ok. Little bro had a quadruple bypass op 5 years ago. He moaned like buggery afterwards but then he always has done. He's a new man now - as they say in the movies.
Cutsyke

Good luck, man.

The NHS should be he UK's proudest achievement. What's more morally sound than quality healthcare for all, the rich helping the poor, no one denied because they cannot afford to get better?
Sir Bulldog Craggwood

Considering it's been 'under Tory management' for the majority of its existence they've done a pretty shitty job of closing it down/privatising it which of course would be such a clever move for never ending political popularity
Late Doors

Why did they abolish the government's duty to provide us with health care then in the health and social care act 2012 ? Something that was constitutional since 1948
Sir Bulldog Craggwood

[quote="Late Doors:247644"]Why did they abolish the government's duty to provide us with health care then in the health and social care act 2012 ? Something that was constitutional since 1948[/quot

I don't know and I haven't heard about that - considering all the scare stories the Labour Party use every election about the NHS they've not used that one enough

I do know this for sure though - the NHS is going to struggle to provide good quality care if we continue to allow net migration at levels of 350k annually
fartcatcher

The NHS doesn't work in isolation. Many patients (particularly elderly) are discharged into the care of their local council who provide After Care services.

The majority of councils have had their budgets cut by 15% in real terms over the last five years - and face at least two more years of the same.

As a result they don't have the funds or resources to meet their responsibilities. So you end up with patients either staying in hospital longer than necessary, or being discharged too early and ending up being re-admitted.

Hospitals are penalised financially for having empty beds, so the end result is that admissions and operations are delayed.

The government either doesn't recognise this or wilfully ignores it.
Late Doors

Sir Bulldog Craggwood wrote:


I do know this for sure though - the NHS is going to struggle to provide good quality care if we continue to allow net migration at levels of 350k annually


But you'd think that given immigration is a net profit for the country it should pay for itself. Assuming of course that the government is collecting taxes pro rata to pay for the NHS. The recent announcement that seven city banks paid almost zero corporation tax last year suggests that might not be happening and to me that is the crux of the NHS issue. Underfunding.

Talking of immigrant sceptics here's what nasty Tory racist and  political advisor to both Thatcher and Cameron Oliver Letwin had to say about his vision for the NHS in 2004.

"NHS will not exist within five years of a Conservative election victory. The health service would instead be a funding stream handing out money to pay people where they want to go for their healthcare"


nineteen years after he had this to say about the countries' black citizens following the riots of 1985

1) setting up a £10m communities programme to tackle inner-city problems would do little more than “subsidise Rastafarian arts and crafts workshops” and that any help would only end up in the “disco and drug trade”.

2) Lower-class, unemployed white people lived for years in appalling slums without a breakdown of public order on anything like the present scale; in the midst of the depression, people in Brixton went out, leaving their grocery money in a bag at the front door, and expecting to see groceries there when they got back.

3) He argued that rioting from members of black communities in Brixton, Tottenham, Liverpool and Birmingham could be explained by “bad moral attitudes”.

He isn't some insane right wing nutter out of step with the party either. He's the prime ministers chief policy advisor including NHS policy
Sir Bulldog Craggwood

And yet the NHS continues to grow, have more money invested in it, innovate, offer more treatments, employ more people, cure and treat more people - all under the leadership of evil Conservative governments who have pledged to abolish it

I can't figure it out - maybe folks on the left tell big fucking lies about the NHS to whip up hysteria and try to regain power and influence.

How many times have we had some Burnham or Blair or Brown or Kinnock tell us we had just 24hours/7days/1month to SAVE OUR NHS? I've lost count

I don't know what tax-dodging banks and what Oliver Letwin had to say ten years ago or 30 years ago have to do with the NHS today. As far as I can tell he's some policy wonk who got over promoted to MP and his out of step views have meant he's been demoted before and is no longer trusted with a ministry or a spokesperson role

I might mention the health system in the USSR was particularly efficient too - as soon as you were sick they shot you - but that would be to muddy the water

Letwin can say what he wants - those riots were savage and I seem to recall a policeman (Keith Blakelock) was almost beheaded and had over 40 stab and machete wounds - what a marvellous system we have that public servants and MPs have to have what they say to colleagues meticulously noted and then published. People - even people on this board - say things at work and to their peers 30 years ago that they might even be ashamed of today. Those riots were appalling and people were scared - so some posh lad said something un-PC 30 years ago - forgive me if I don't care
Sir Bulldog Craggwood

And I disagree with the Lynton Crosby knighthood

He shouldn't have been given a knighthood

He should've been given a duchy, a hereditary peerage and a small island for his services to this country

He helped keep that cunt Leninslime out of City Hall for 8 years, deliberately sabotaged Michael Howard's 2005 campaign and kept Siliband out of power
Late Doors

Not some posh lad, cheif policy advisor to the prime minister and i care what he said 30 years ago. My views have hardly changed in principle since then nor do many otther people's and it worries me that a key figure in the future of the NHS is an out of touch racist buffoon determined to ruin it
Late Doors

But thanks for making me laugh with the second post
fartcatcher

Article is a couple of years old.

Quote:
An "arbitrary" straitjacket on the NHS's budget by Whitehall is leading to job losses, recruitment freezes and inadequate care for patients, the leader of the country's doctors warns on Tuesday.

Dr Mark Porter, chairman of the British Medical Association, said forcing the NHS in England to make £20bn of "efficiency gains" by 2015 at a time of rising demand for healthcare was wrong and damaging.

Porter was speaking to the Guardian after the Department of Health (DH) admitted that 7,060 NHS clinical staff, such as doctors and nurses, have been made redundant since the coalition took power in 2010, at the same time as David Cameron was pledging to protect the service's frontline from cuts.

Responding to a freedom of information request, the DH disclosed that 4,620 frontline staff were made compulsorily redundant between 2010-11 and 2012-13, and a further 2,430 voluntarily redundant.

Labour, which obtained the DH's response, said it did not specify how many of each type of staff were made redundant. But the 7,060 total does include doctors, nurses, midwives, health visitors, ambulance staff and qualified scientific, therapeutic and technical staff, the DH said.


http://www.theguardian.com/societ...staff-laid-off-amid-savings-drive
sheeps

Sir Bulldog Craggwood wrote:
And yet the NHS continues to grow, have more money invested in it, innovate, offer more treatments, employ more people, cure and treat more people - all under the leadership of evil Conservative governments who have pledged to abolish it

I can't figure it out - maybe folks on the left tell big fucking lies about the NHS to whip up hysteria and try to regain power and influence.

How many times have we had some Burnham or Blair or Brown or Kinnock tell us we had just 24hours/7days/1month to SAVE OUR NHS? I've lost count

I don't know what tax-dodging banks and what Oliver Letwin had to say ten years ago or 30 years ago have to do with the NHS today. As far as I can tell he's some policy wonk who got over promoted to MP and his out of step views have meant he's been demoted before and is no longer trusted with a ministry or a spokesperson role

I might mention the health system in the USSR was particularly efficient too - as soon as you were sick they shot you - but that would be to muddy the water

Letwin can say what he wants - those riots were savage and I seem to recall a policeman (Keith Blakelock) was almost beheaded and had over 40 stab and machete wounds - what a marvellous system we have that public servants and MPs have to have what they say to colleagues meticulously noted and then published. People - even people on this board - say things at work and to their peers 30 years ago that they might even be ashamed of today. Those riots were appalling and people were scared - so some posh lad said something un-PC 30 years ago - forgive me if I don't care




More money you say?

I have been in the NHS some thirty years, never seen it as broke.
Late Doors

It isn't a recent article FC but still relevant. As usual it's a symptom of the inertia the NHS is gripped by as opposing ideologies clash. Vast swathes of the Tory establishment want to privatise it lock stock and barrel. Osbourne himself is on record from 2005 saying just that. Of course as Bully as already said it would be political suicide to do so given that they got in on the back of the Grey Vote who need the NHS the most.

So as well as a cross party conflict you also get inter party conflict. The labour party are having different challenges at the moment so can't really make a stance on the issue which leaves ridiculously arbitrary savings targets launched at the NHS from government that are based on nothing at all other than some bullish wish list stretch target that leaves the NHS Management with no option other than to lay  people off. Of course the work still needs to be done so they "re employ" staff through agencies . Incidentally, did you know that NHS management  salaries have risen sharply under the Tories who were left with 290 managers earning over £200,000 but has increased their number to 500 but as usual it is the rank and file who get laid off.

These staff agencies then cream off nearly half the fee in lots of cases. Of course these new bastions of enterprise then make lots of profit all at the Tax payers expense for providong a service that was already there. In 2014-15 the NHS spent £3.3 billion on agency nurses and doctors with consultants paid up to £10,000 for a weekend’s work. Recent legislation to stop this happening is effectively useless as there are get out clauses that state exceptional circumstances that are not exceptional but are practically the norm. What you going to do? let someone die or recruit care

That and all sorts of other ridiculous so called competitive legislation from section 75s competition law is where the money is going Sheeps
Heyho

LD you need to substantiate 'NHS management  salaries have risen sharply under the Tories who were left with 290 managers earning over £200,000'. Or at least I (being a Senior Manager in the NHS will).

These are Executive Directors wages and not us run of the mill managers. In act we have been targeted more than lower bands and ared seeing a net decrease in salary, certainly no above inflation rise.

The problem is that there is a stigma attached to pay people that are being paid out of all of our taxes (rather than private industry) 'high' salaries. But take an organisation such at Leeds Teaching Hospitals - 15,000 staff and £1b turnover. What would the CEO of a comparable private company with a similar turnover be getting. A succession of governments have wanted to run the NHS as a business. It can't be - you have to combine your heart with your head. But there is a saying Pay peanuts and you get monkeys.
Late Doors

Substantiate it? This isn't bloody Crown Court y'know? It probably came from either the Guardian or Telegraph (Yin and Yan) or a link from them to other sources or articles. Third sector.co. uk is a good source of info as are a number of Twitter accounts @butNHS for instance

This is the article I probably got it from and it sounds like it could be Owen Jones or Poly Toynbee, neither  are prone to telling fibs

---------------
Cameron is ordering the NHS to use the private sector, but it's no cheaper. St Andrew's, a private mental health service, paid its CEO £650,000 – until Third Sector magazine reported it. Nuffield Health pays its CEO £840,000. A curiosity in private hospitals is that many are technically charities, in the same way Eton is a charity, gaining tax privileges for the privileged. NHS top salaries have risen steeply under this government, which inherited 290 very senior managers earning over £200,000 but has increased their number to 500. Perhaps that's what it takes to find those willing to run this chaotic, high-risk new system.
---------

It was a reply about the article FC posted. It seems to be the British way in all business. Some arbitrary target is cascaded down from upon high based on nothing but a wish. It gets enforced down the chain through a strata of other executives all wanting to impress above and maybe adding their own stretch targets to appear aggressively demanding and ambitious. All these people can do then is beat up the level below with ridiculous performance appraisal measures and add nothing to the actual constructive process with ideas, process improvements, job execution and man management (the things that actually get the job done). All that good stuff stuff ends up on the coal face as it were and the immediate management of that activity. These are the people who bear the weight of all that expectation from above and these are the people who are actually "working". Virtually all my social contacts are these people in all walks of life and I hear the same story again and again. I suspect H you are one of these and not one of the over £200.000 NHS Executives. If you are we need to meet up because I have a Nigerian investment opportunity for you.

This strata of executives have been put in by the Tories to manage their ridiculous competition laws brought in under section 75 of the Health and Social Care act brought in by them as a precursor to ultimate privatisation

http://www.nhsforsale.info/databa...ssues/section-75-regulations.html
Late Doors

Well predictably I suppose I've got to throw our own situation in Huddersfield into the mix. Went to the first meeting yesterday about the possible removal of Huddersfield's AE dept. Couldn't get in so just mingled in with the protest outside, think I made Look North but they chose to interview someone less photogenic so as not to distract from the gravity of it all.

Huddersfield, a university town, population around 150000 and scheduled to grow to up to double that and doesn't need an AE dept it seems. So in time honoured political tradition they try to divide by saying its Calderdale or Huddersfield, because it is not economically viable to have both. Not economically viable. Two large important towns in a country amongst the richest in the world that hosts the worlds multi billionaire elite and richest global corporations as they reap and reap the benefits of Tax avoidance. No tax revenue to fund the health care of the country's people that built it in the first place and instead ends up in the pockets of literally a handful of staggeringly rich individuals but that is what austerity and low tax does

The Tories are what they are , if you support their principles for your beliefs in the common good fair enough. This is what is happening though with their gradual strangulation of publically funded NHS. I don't blame the less than a quarter of the voting population that elected them but surely, by now the rest who didn't should have woken up to what they want to turn our country into. Take a look around for God's sake, look at our streets, read about what is happening with the NHS. They are deliberately strangling the life out of it to justify their drip drip handing over of it to their friends in the private sector. You may think that is a good thing. It isn't. Huddersfield, Halifax it will go on and on under their control. More People will die as a result of this, that is a certainty
fartcatcher

The Tories have always been uncomfortable with the NHS and indeed the whole concept of the Welfare State. They voted no less than 21 times against it's inception.

Obviously things have changed and I don't think even Lord Snooty and his pals would want to demolish something that is now so engrained into the British Psyche. The only British post war to seriously attempt to do this was Margaret (there is no such thing as society) Thatcher and she was talked out of it by Howe and Heseltine.

By the mid seventies our heath system was world class. Politicians form other countries used to visit the UK to see how it worked.
Part of the problem is that many of it's original objectives had been met.
Massive improvements in diet (ironically initiated by war time rationiing that meant food was distributed fairly) meant that vitamin and mineral deficiencies were almost unknown by the mid seventies. Infectious diseases that killed or debilitated (TB, diptheria, polio) were eradicated through vaccination campaigns. The air no longer blackened the lungs the same way it did all the bulidings in the middle of Leeds.

The end result of these changes is that people are living longer and this brings a different set of problems. The focus has changed from the effect treatment of patients to the cost-effective treatment of patients.

Epidemiologists have been telling successive governments this for thirty years. The strategy (if it can be called a strategy) is to reduce costs by capping wages, outsourcing non-core services, reduce staffing levels, the internal market and penalise hospitals if they fail to meet metrics (eg waiting times. bed usage)

It's a mess.

Rhyming slang's current war against junior doctors really is scraping the bottom of the barrel. He clearly understands absolutely nothing about how the NHS works if he is obsessed with something so utterly trivial.
I suggest that he actuallly visits an A an E department on a Friday night, Saturday or Sunday. Anyone who had worked in a hospital at the weekend will tell you that the majority of patients are either drunks, injured sportsmen or kids with bits of lego up their nose.
Those with serious conditions don't always get the treatment they need, not because of the lack of junior doctors, but the lask of on duty consultants and the fact that there are no fucking beds.

The solution apparently is to deem the A and E department as failing and close it down.

sorry if this is a bit disjointed.
sheeps

Leeds Teaching Hospitals have Yorkshires biggest renal unit.

Latest word on the street is the Trust are inviting tenders to run it.

Thanks Dave.
Dalek

sheeps wrote:
Leeds Teaching Hospitals have Yorkshires biggest renal unit.

Latest word on the street is the Trust are inviting tenders to run it.

Thanks Dave.


A Ken Bates/GFH partnership perhaps?!                        sofa.gif
Sir Bulldog Craggwood

How many days/hours left to save it again?
Late Doors

Its never been in better shape, dunno what all the fuss is about.
Late Doors

Interesting slant on the BBC News yesterday about Ambulance services failing to meet targets. Not a word about underfunding or closing AE departments all over the country but it's down to rising demand (i.e. scrounging  foreigners, poor people and us old people) and that it is now "time to look at the system". Can anyone seriously now suggest that the BBC is leftwing bias and we aren't on a drip drip route to NHS privatisation
Heyho

I shall tell you a little story about funding (or lack of it) within the NHS and central government intervention.

A few years ago I was on a NHS committee that fed into Downing Street (indirectly) regarding the central renewal of software licences. We made three choices, the ideal, middle ground and a 'well times are hard' option. The government chose the fourth option (that we never proposed) which was to scrap all central software funding. The direct result of this was that the £92 per seat cost of purchasing a certain software suite centrally now costs an individual organisation around £350 per seat. The government boasted of £222m saving when in reality each individual organisation had to pay four times more (and find the money without any central funds. So typically a large NHS organisation would be looking at upwards of £500,000 just for this one set of software licences. That amount of money could go a hell of a long way in patient care,
fartcatcher

Don't get me started on this. My mum and dad both worked in the NHS in Leeds when patient care was the priority rather than meeting budgets.

Now, our local A&E department is due to close as part of the 'Future Fit' review of health services in the area. Also a Women and Children unit opened with a fanfare by the Princess Royal (whoever that is) two years ago will close.

Most of the 'increased funding' seems to go on management consultants rather than front line support.

       www.regdafishthinktank.com Forum Index -> Life in the fish bowl
Page 1 of 1
Create your own free forum | Buy a domain to use with your forum
I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune