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fartcatcher

Should we stay or should we go

I don't really understand economics. I suspect a lot of those who will vote against EU membership don't understand economics either, but believe the tabloid rhetoric about being invaded by hordes of foreign types. Maybe they're right, but I haven't seen many round here.

When I was gainfully employed, I didn't learn about economics, but I did learn about trade and legislation - really by osmosis through being around those who understood it. they are two areas where the EU has a massive influence over the way we do business.

If you buy components from EU countries you pay no duty. If you sell product within the EU you pay no duty. As soon as you go out of the EU the opposite applies. It's twice as hard to sell in countries that aggressively protect their own market. China and the U.S. are the worst. You see figures that show record exports to these countries, but they mask the fact that profits are marginal.
If we leave the EU then this will apply to every market. We will be faced with a massive loss in the profitability of our exports, and be forced to negotiate a trade agreement with every single country in the EU.

Much of the legislation that regulates the motor industry is governed by the EU. Particularly that relating to the environment - CO2 and NO2 emissions, fuel consumption, water and air quality, pollution - the whole damn lot.

Lead free petrol and smoke-free workplaces wouldn't have happened without the EU

As soon as we leave there will be a legislative vacuum. We will be forced to create our own legislation or face a free for all. I suspect the affected industries will be allowed to 'self-regulate' and we all know how well that works.

I reckon the vote will very close, and it will dominate our politics probably up to the next election. The only compensation for me at the moment is watching the Conservative party self-immolating.
Late Doors

Indeed and if anyone is still in doubt about who runs the BBC and all mainstream media can you imagine the stories if it was the labour party torn in two over a major issue like this. Imagine what accusations towards Corbyn's leadership there would be? Still not convinced? then imagine Corbyn had a brother who was recently kicked out of his profession four being a sex fiend preying and threatening vulnerable women as George Osborne's has been. Hardly registered as it, and rightly so, but just imagine......

We are still no wiser about the in or out ramifications as we were when it was first raised such is the pathetic information media we have. All we get is anecdotal sound bites based on prejudice and self interests. Personally I am certain we, ie working class Britain is far better in. You only have to see who the out brigade are to realise that. This idea that we are better on our own is based entirely on some prehistoric colonial super power delusion from billionaire financial sector barons who don't want regulating.
Dock

Go. Wholly disagree with the above two posts but can't be arsed to do that much typing in stating my argument. This is a debate for the pub!
Grind

Stay, but be pains in the arse?
Late Doors

Appreciate it takes time to put it together rationally and factually and I will try to that and represent why I believe we should stay. But we ain't on trial here Dock mate, what about anecdotally or just plane gut feeling emotively. I think there could be a few positives about leaving actually but its on balance I think otherwise. Mainly with the very long term in mind
Heyho

I actually don't know one way or another (and that makes a change).

Could we target enough exports to the likes of Brazil, China, India etc and guarantee this. I'm not too sure.

I think a two tier EU might be better based around a countries GDP. A bit like the new format of the European Song Competition. Then we could ask the Aussies and Israel to come aboard.

And I totally agree with LD over the lack of any tangible evidence one way or another to let us make our minds up.
Grind

Don't let your indecision take you from behind.
Forest

Out. Not heard any convincing arguments for staying to be honest.

And LD if the out brigade are a pretty gruesome lot, the in brigade has Cameron, Osbourne and a couple of terrorists in McGuinness and Adams.
Grind

Don't let others change your mind.
Forest

Grind wrote:
Don't let others change your mind.


Wise words mate

*whips off skirt*
Grind

I knew it wasn't totally wasted.
Dock

Grind wrote:
I knew it wasn't totally wasted.


I got it as well Grinder but didn't want to encourage you as I tend to get put on the naughty step on here for spoiling serious threads. Good work sir!
Dalek

Anybody notice the echoes of the 2014 Scottish Referendum here?

"We are better together?" (but we cannot really say why)!
Dock

Dalek wrote:
Anybody notice the echoes of the 2014 Scottish Referendum here?

"We are better together?" (but we cannot really say why)!


Good point well made Dalek.
Grind

* Tries to think of another Bucks Fizz song. *

** Fails. **

*** Looks as if he doesn't care less. ***
Dock

Grind wrote:
* Tries to think of another Bucks Fizz song. *

** Fails. **

*** Looks as if he doesn't care less. ***


The Cameron never lies anymore, cos' there's nothing worth lying for!

ITHANKAYOU!!!!
Grind

* Applauds. *
fartcatcher

I hadn't appreciated that Cameron's future depended on winning this one. With Boris waiting to replace his fellow swan muncher if he loses.

With Boris in charge here and Trump in the US, things could get very interesting.
Grind

fartcatcher wrote:
I hadn't appreciated that Cameron's future depended on winning this one. With Boris waiting to replace his fellow swan muncher if he loses.

With Boris in charge here and Trump in the US, things could get very interesting.


Interesting is a euphemism for totally fucked up, isn't it?
Dalek

Grind wrote:
* Tries to think of another Bucks Fizz song. *

** Fails. **

*** Looks as if he doesn't care less. ***


The Land Of Make Believe - surely!!
Heyho

I am definitely undecided on this one but I have decided one thing - if the opt out brigade mandate that we also leave the Eurovision Song Competition
fartcatcher

Hat eating time

Quote:
I reckon the vote will very close, and it will dominate our politics probably up to the next election. The only compensation for me at the moment is watching the Conservative party self-immolating.


Ok first sentence pretty good, but second way off the mark. Mightily impressed with the way the Tories have sorted out their post Brexit mess with a few swift stabbings. Meanwhile the Labour Party dies the death of a thousand cuts.

Who'd have thought it.
Late Doors

I should think they have sorted their mess out pretty damm pronto, they are the government after all and surely the onus is on them but yeah there's trouble at t'mill on the other side.

Aye, ol' Teresa's beginning to look looks like the Ed Milliband we never got . She's played a blinder, slightly under the radar, non committal, let others take the shit and who'd have thought all the time she was thinking exactly the same of her colleagues as I did.

Cameron, Gone, huzzah
Gideon, Gone, hurrah
Whitingdale , away, *sounds trumpets*
Gove, banished but unfortunately not mauled by a stampeding Bull on his way out.
Morgan, dismissed *does jig*

Ian and Duncan Smith, Can't thank May for this but hey, we'll take it although like a bad smell he may be just away for the Summer

Letwin, away with yer, yayyyy
Hunt, stays, Boooo

Johnson and Davies, ok , get on with it then and take every bit of shit that is coming your way, on your own.

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