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Dock

Never Mind the Ballots - Election 2017

After the EU referendum and the cheap and nasty practices/ scaremongering/ mudslinging/ acting on self interests/ and monumental lack of a real plan on BOTH sides of the political spectrum last year I really have little time for any politicians. But saying that I do like Corbyn's idealism and values, even if many of his own party had the knives out for him again as soon as the election date was announced. One of the main policy issues for me is education. The academy thing hasn't worked and the lack of money in schools, the stupid amounts of admin faffery that stops teachers being able to just teach, the perpetual jumping through Ofsted hoops that schools have to do, and the constant academic pressure on kids (your life chances should not be determined on exam results in my opinion) are all things that scare me as a parent of a five year old who's doing fine in his first year of school (I get such a buzz hearing him reading out words from a page) and I want him to have a happy childhood and enjoy learning. So in conclusion that's probably going to be the main thing that is going to shape my vote. The recent Blair and Con governments have chipped away at public services like education and health and I want them back for the people.
Late Doors

I know the common consensus is to be thoroughly sick of politics but since the thread has started..

Never has a conservative government been more for the taking and never have we had opposition less able to take it. Everybody, ok almost everybody thinks Corbyn is a good man and likes what he says. So he wants to talks to terrorists and wants the word rid of nuclear weapons. Well he didn't make one deputy leader of a country or talk in secret like so many other politicians do. And who else relishes nuclear weapons in the hands of maniacs running countries these days?

It's all there on the labour party web site. Policies aims and ambitions but it just isn't getting out to their voters never mind undecided voters. They can blame media blocking and manipulation all they like but it's up to him to break through and he simply isn't doing so. He should be translating policies into potential government actions on the economy and telling the nation with passion why it won't damage the country. Until he does no one is going to trust his economic policies and model. Millions and millions of people desperately want to believe him and in a credible opposition to the Tories, it should be a doddle but he does not seem capable of either getting his message across despite the media strangulation or mobilising  his party to do the same. We are morphing into an American style right wing and centre right alternative with the Labour party being some kind of Noam Chomsky type idealists. It's sickening but it's what we are being led into as part of the bigger move into the American type political social and economic model. I'm sorry but this talk of sick of politics is only helping that happen. Maybe that's what we want. Recent elections and polls certainly suggest that and an apathetic outlook on politics will only accelerate it.  

I couldn't agree more about Education but the trouble is Governments and their masters view it simply as a tool for moulding people into their long term strategies for the country. It should be about giving every kid maximum resources to fulfil all of their potential in whatever talent they have, Artistic, scientific, technical, creative whatever and taking them on from there. I shouldn't talk really not having any kids to worry about but it seems to me that already huge swathes of kids are already into a system that will give them no chance. Got to say that pillock Blair made a right mess of education as well
Heyho

Corbyn is the first Labour leader I actually have time for. But as much as he might appeal to those who like the thought of grass roots socialism in reality most Labour supporters have been capitalised and turned right of centre by Blair/Brown.

We've had this debate before but what do we vote for - the PM figure, the party or the local MP if he has done us good. I could never ever vote for right wing socialism as I think it is hypocritical. I like monetarism ON PAPER aka Milton Friedman, which was the Tory way but in reality it is severely flawed i.e. the complete wipe out of the pits and no thought to the social impact yet to simply chuck money at things is also stupid. If you can't afford it you can't have it. Yet we now live in a debt ridden society.

Will I vote - well I might for my local MP who has been very responsive to my own personal plight about building social housing on the green field land at the bottom of my garden. To that end I don't give a shite what party he is.
Heyho

To me the whole example of central government can be summed up in the following story (and I may have told this before):

A few years ago I was involved with a team who was setup to look at computer licencing within n area of the public sector. I used to go down to the big smoke and we'd sit around a table and the lead would report back to some junior minister who then put it to his next line of command etc etc. Anyway the licence bundle was costing about 90 per PC (or 222m in total). Despite our three options which never included scrap everything the government at the time (time of last but one election) decided to pull it and under a blaze of publicity told the country it had saved the tax payer 222m.

One problem there - those licences still need paying. Upshot - that 90 it was costing now costs an organisation upwards of 350 and no central fund was available so each individual organisation has to cough the money up itself.

Now that is central politics for you in a nut shell
fartcatcher

Old flappy trousers isn't daft. She knows the economy will be in worse shape in two years than it is now, and that Labour by then will have more ammunition (and possiby better leadership).

Unfortunately I think she'll breeze it.

It really bugs me when they go on about all the money they are giving to Education.

The problem is that it's not going to the Local Councils who desperately need it for schools - it's all going towards setting up Academies, Free Schools and now Grammar Schools.

More choice my arse. Grammar schools that choose the parents/children. Not the other way round. That's why they have the 11+.
Late Doors

And another five years to attack the old without risking core vote too much, pensions, allowances, means tests etc. Turn young people against them first in classic divisive media campaign.
Late Doors

Jezza was in our park today

https://twitter.com/DanJohnsonNew...le%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

The eagle eyed amongst you might spot yours truly to the right of the "Hands off HRI" banner to the left of the pampuss grass
Grind

Pompous arse?
Dock

The three main parties seem to be trying to out do each other on election pledges. Like market lads trying to undercut each other shouting the price of veg. It's all pretty fucking tacky if you ask me.......I know you won't.
Heyho

Despite never ever voting Labour in my life (in fact I think I have only ever voted once in my life) the thought of a party with a massive majority whilst the main opposition party fragments into New Labour and Socialism Labour further diminishing any serious opposition does not appeal to me,

Yes British politics needs a majority party rather than a coalition but not a massive majority. Thatcher and Blair showed us that doesn't work.

But I don't dislike Corbyn as a person - he's got an allotment god dammit - but he is so wet when answering questions yet his main players are even worse. You listen to them and they sound like the local councillor you bump into in the pub.
fartcatcher

A bit of mildly interesting background to Nurse Ratched's enthusiasm for hunting. During the last campaign, the Countryside Alliance bussed their members into 130 key constituencies to help the Conservative candidates distribute leaflets and generally do rent-a-mob duties.

She knows that there's not the slightest chance that Parliament will ever vote to bring back hunting, but her positive pro-hunting message has ensured the continued support of the Alliance throughout the current campaign.

Politics huh!
Heyho

Really disappointed where this here election is going.

Never been agreat fan of Labour but I have actually found Corbyn to have been the better candidate up to now.

But he and espeically his cromies around him are weak and we do need some tough leadership in the coming years. So I was expecting a lot more of May. Couldn't stand Cameron but she came over as a breath of fresh air. But the whole way she has conducted this election campaign has put her down in my estimation. And I certainly don't see any strength in depth amongst her rank and file.

It's sad that British politics seems to have deterioriated to middle o fthe road mediocharcy

I may abstain from voting although to be fair our local MP (and a back bencher) seems quite decent
Late Doors

How can you call him weak? Despite incredible brutal pressure on him to say things he doesn't believe in he still plays it straight down his line of convictions. Not only that he is not frightened to appear on tv to debate and answer to the public about his beliefs. Neither is he frightened of having alternative view points around him that he is managing with incredible strength.

Nah, its a foregone conclusion obviously but it isn't going to be the landslide originally predicted. British politics has oscillated to the left and right of center for decades, that is our way and it works but the shift and trend over that period has been to the right. It's the Tories turn to have a stint in power, ok, so what matters right now is a proper opposition that is going to oppose and form a credible real alternative that is going to make people think twice about accepting Tory policy and make it harder for them to enforce.
carp

Pah to it all.
Heyho

Late Doors wrote:
How can you call him weak? Despite incredible brutal pressure on him to say things he doesn't believe in he still plays it straight down his line of convictions. Not only that he is not frightened to appear on tv to debate and answer to the public about his beliefs. Neither is he frightened of having alternative view points around him that he is managing with incredible strength.

Nah, its a foregone conclusion obviously but it isn't going to be the landslide originally predicted. British politics has oscillated to the left and right of center for decades, that is our way and it works but the shift and trend over that period has been to the right. It's the Tories turn to have a stint in power, ok, so what matters right now is a proper opposition that is going to oppose and form a credible real alternative that is going to make people think twice about accepting Tory policy and make it harder for them to enforce.


Collectively he is weak LD. The people around him are baffoons. But so are the Tories. Fuck knows who Mays advisor is but to tell her not to do the TV appearance is also political suicide.

Corbyn has too many alternative ideas as well. And not ones that a Bristish PM should have.

I do agree (as I have said before) that a landslide victory for any political party is not good for the country especially when both main parties are so weak collectively.

This is the worse political setup I have seen for years. We, the voters, deserve more to represent us whatever political persuasion you are.
Dock

May is just a rhetoric tape on a loop. My toaster has more personality than her. The more I see and hear The Corb speak the more I like him. I will be voting Labour.

I believe a lot of people's perception of him as weak comes from the fact that they want to be comforted by shifty smooth talking fuckers like Cameron and others of his kind. Corbyn hasn't slung any shit about anybody and has kept to his convictions about what he wants to achieve and what he believes to be the causes of inequality.
Heyho

Dock wrote:
May is just a rhetoric tape on a loop. My toaster has more personality than her. The more I see and hear The Corb speak the more I like him. I will be voting Labour.

I believe a lot of people's perception of him as weak comes from the fact that they want to be comforted by shifty smooth talking fuckers like Cameron and others of his kind. Corbyn hasn't slung any shit about anybody and has kept to his convictions about what he wants to achieve and what he believes to be the causes of inequality.


I want Corbyns magic wand. We are going to fund more for the police, NHS blah blah blah. Ermm where from exactly.

Oh of course the high tax earners. And no not those on 6 figure sums plus as that revenue is actually minimal but from the likes of you and me. Tories have done it through stealth taxation. An example. I got on the HMRC hit list a few years ago because I sneaked into the high tax band AND I had kids (so we legally entitled to child allowance). Cost me a few grand in tax arrears and now every year I have to fill out a tax return telling them of all my income. Costs me around 250 a year. Yet a person I work with who is on a lot more than me and whose partner has a very good job as well has never had to fill out a tax return yet he has lots invested in shares etc, the only difference - he doesn't have kids. I love stealth tax.

Unless something radical happens I won't be voting.
Heyho

What sickens me the most is the 'I hate xxxxx' groups that have sprung up on Facebook. Replace xxxxx with Corbyn or May. Stuff like that is disgusting.
fartcatcher

My shed is strong and stable, Theresa.

Do I vote for the party that wants to bring back hunting, or the party that will abolish hospital car park charges. Tricky.
Heyho

fartcatcher wrote:
or the party that will abolish hospital car park charges. Tricky.


They might start by repealing the stupid 'square meters of property' tax that NHS organisations have to endure and which they introduced. Hospitals are historically spread out affairs but they get penalised for having too much property so have to seal up perfectly useable building and declare them uninhabitable to reduce a penalty. Little things like this could easily be repealed and save the NHS millions that could be further invested.
grunt

Vote not Tory! They are quite clearly a bunch of cunts.
sheeps

grunt wrote:
Vote not Tory! They are quite clearly a bunch of cunts.

 


To the point and very informative.


*places x*
Heyho

I shall NOT be voting for the party who represents me in my local council 'cos they are cunts. So there.
Dock

grunt wrote:
Vote not Tory! They are quite clearly a bunch of cunts.


If that's a direct quote from The Corb I applaud the man! It would come over a lot better in PMQ's.
Heyho

I hope everyone is happy. The country is officially fucked. I would have rather had old 3 wives allotmenteer in power than a hung parliament. Especially at the time of Brexit.

Really worried about things now.

So what happened:

Broadsheets bragging about a Tory landslide - none of us wanted that
May employed the worse political advisors in history (well modern times anyway) who told her shite which made her U-Turn and then not to appear on TV
Labour did their usual unsustainable bollocks about chucking more money in the NHS, schooling, hospitals blah blah blah let's all yawn
Terrorist attacks - that was the final nail in the stupid Tory coffin
Oh and Fox hunting came into it. WTF. We are in the midst of the worse terrorist times ever and that became a hot topic

Fuck me.
fartcatcher

Massive fuck up. She'll go down in history as Britain's worst ever Prime Minister.

England v Iceland all over again. Complacency compounded by poor leadership.

DUP - a bunch of religious zealots who still celebrate the Battle of the Boyne like it was yesterday, and have no interest in anything that goes on beyond their province.

And the Tories have to go cap in hand to get their approval for any legislation.
sheeps

https://youtu.be/291ET6Py6H8
Dock

Have a sit down and a cuppa Heyho. Nothing's fucked or beyond redemption. It's fucked up but not totally fucked. It's change. Might be messy for a long time but it'll all straighten out. I was quite energised by the result. It's shows that people are starting to question what exactly it is that politicians are supposed to be doing for their electorate, and the gains by Labour show that people have had enough of middle ground out of touch arseholes like May and Cameron. Corbyn's honesty has always been classy but yesterday was his day. All those naysayers from his own party and the media who moved against him can fuck right off. People aren't buying their self-serving shit they peddle anymore. For me, Friday June 9th 2017 was St Jeremy's Day. Well done that man! As for May going cap in hand to those regressive religious barmpots the DUP???? The Cons are fucked, they won't come back from this.
Plastic Man

As some on this site will testify, on Wednesday I thought that there could well be a hung parliament. I've re-posted the heated debate with a certain Mr. Catcher below:  

Quote:
PM: I find it strange that Theresa May won't go toe-to-toe with Jeremy Corbyn in public debate, but reckons she can tough it out with the other 27 EU leaders. I'm not a political animal, but my (conspiracy) theory is that Theresa May doesn't want to win. The majority of parliamentarians don't want Brexit, but to ignore the result of the referendum would be political suicide for all concerned. Theresa May has not just been backing off, but acting scared, allowing Jezza to sneak up on the inside rail. Yes, he's not popular, but he's doing much better than most people thought. Perhaps enough obfuscation has been done to create a hung parliament? Then the remainder of the two year EU exit discussion period could result in no clear decisions possible. What would be the outcome of that? I read somewhere (and may be wrong) but the decision to leave the EU was not binding, and could be withdrawn. Which might be a suitable outcome for interested parties?

There again, there could be a huge Tory majority come Friday.

FC:  I think she called the election expecting a walkover and unequivocal support for her Hard Brexit. Now she's fighting for her political survival and looks rather scared.

PM: I reckon it was a deliberate plan, the last roll of the dice. She had been backed into a corner. Would you want to be branded in history as the person leading the charge into what could be economic carnage? She didn't have many options. Maybe collective blame/ tactical resignation gives her a way out?

FC:  you 'May' be right


On further reflection, why did TM trigger Article 50, then wait quite a while before calling an election? To eat as much time as possible of the 2 year discussion period?

So instead of a working majority government, we now have a hung parliament... the possibility of another election in the Autumn... maybe no clear outcome yet again ... more time wasted...

Being "forced" to jump into bed with DUP is even more brilliant in creating divisiveness on a different front. No doubt there will be demands and threats to end their support unless they receive specific government promises that will be impossible to meet due to the risk of agitating the Republlicans.

Triple gins all round for the Remainers...
Butts

Dock wrote:
Have a sit down and a cuppa Heyho. Nothing's fucked or beyond redemption. It's fucked up but not totally fucked. It's change. Might be messy for a long time but it'll all straighten out. I was quite energised by the result. It's shows that people are starting to question what exactly it is that politicians are supposed to be doing for their electorate, and the gains by Labour show that people have had enough of middle ground out of touch arseholes like May and Cameron. Corbyn's honesty has always been classy but yesterday was his day. All those naysayers from his own party and the media who moved against him can fuck right off. People aren't buying their self-serving shit they peddle anymore. For me, Friday June 9th 2017 was St Jeremy's Day. Well done that man! As for May going cap in hand to those regressive religious barmpots the DUP???? The Cons are fucked, they won't come back from this.


Agree with that. It was a fantastic result, beyond my expectations. One of the best outcomes will be the dilution of influence of the right wing press and their off-shore, tax avoiding billionaire owners. The Mail, neatly described in The Observer as 'firing analogue bullets in a digital age'.
Heyho

What seems to be lost in the political game that is front line politics is the fact that you and me elect these people. And collectively that means that the 650 MPs' are there to serve us, the electorate.

So I would have been far more impressed with a wall of silence over the stupid bitch PM and a 'we are going through hard times ahead, the country has voted for a Brexit so under the democracy we should all unite blah blah blah' rather than the cheap tacky politics and fucking smirk that has accompanied the resign resign resign.

Don't get me wrong any opposition party would have done that. But that isn't what politics should be about.

If it was mainstream politics I would have done what I have for the past 35 years and not voted but my decision to vote was a pure selfish one based on what help and support my local MP has given me up to now against an authoritarian and faceless set of cunts in power in my local council who are clearly corrupt and love building on green belt land.
fartcatcher

You wuz right PM.

I wonder what odds you could have got on a hung parliament? I'm not often speechless, but when I saw the exit poll results and the look of abject fear on Michael Fallon's face, I certainly was.

Apparently Murdoch's not happy with her so she's doomed.

We now all understand her priorities.

1 Herself
2. The Tory Party
3 The country

And certainty has replaced stability.
Heyho

We are supposed to live in a democracy (ok that is debatable). Unde rthis premise the country voted as a whole to leave Europe. The country has also, narrowly, decided to elect a government as we have now.

So dear prime minister grow some balls, stop crying and start leading the country. And Jeremy you smug fucking cunt remember that despite being in a safe seat you were elected by us the electorate and start realising this country is up shit creek as it is and doesn't need you trying to exploit the situation for your own person goals
Dock

Heyho wrote:
We are supposed to live in a democracy (ok that is debatable). Unde rthis premise the country voted as a whole to leave Europe. The country has also, narrowly, decided to elect a government as we have now.

So dear prime minister grow some balls, stop crying and start leading the country. And Jeremy you smug fucking cunt remember that despite being in a safe seat you were elected by us the electorate and start realising this country is up shit creek as it is and doesn't need you trying to exploit the situation for your own person goals


I disagree H. I think JC has been a shining light of magnanimity since the election result. If the boot was on the other foot the Conservatives would be pouring scorn all over him but he hasn't done that. I think he's self satisfied but not smug. And rightly so too after the shit he's had to put with since he was elected as Labour leader.
Heyho

Dock wrote:
Heyho wrote:
We are supposed to live in a democracy (ok that is debatable). Unde rthis premise the country voted as a whole to leave Europe. The country has also, narrowly, decided to elect a government as we have now.

So dear prime minister grow some balls, stop crying and start leading the country. And Jeremy you smug fucking cunt remember that despite being in a safe seat you were elected by us the electorate and start realising this country is up shit creek as it is and doesn't need you trying to exploit the situation for your own person goals


I disagree H. I think JC has been a shining light of magnanimity since the election result. If the boot was on the other foot the Conservatives would be pouring scorn all over him but he hasn't done that. I think he's self satisfied but not smug. And rightly so too after the shit he's had to put with since he was elected as Labour leader.


You are totally right about of the boot was on the other foot. And that is what is annoying me most at the moment.
Dock

So Gove the Toad back in the cabinet and The monumentally-loathed Jeremy Hunt keeps his post in Health. Talk about out of touch with the electorate!!! As the popular beat combo Paul Weller once sang in his popular music outing entitled 'Walls Come Tumbling Down':

You don't have to take this crap
You don't have to sit back and relax
You can actually try changing it

I know we've always been taught to rely
Upon those in authority
But you never know until you try
How things just might be
If we came together so strongly

Are you gonna try to make this work
Or spend your days down in the dirt
You see things can change
Yes and walls can come tumbling down
Grind

Beat No Surrender?

UK politics isn't so far away from the nonsense going on here.
Heyho

I think this new world of instant faceless communication i.e. the t'internet is having a lot to play and is very worrying with regards to how it can be used to indoctrinate people.

Let's take for example Corbyn and Mays recent contrasting visits to Grenfell.

Corbyn was very public with his visit - hugging local residents, the media with him all the time as he did it. An act of a genuinely nice person or one of a shrewd politicians using the situation for his own political progression. In contrast May does a 'hidden' visit. Is this one of a woman totally insensitive to things around her or one that feels the situation should not warrant public promotion.

I don't know the answer to the above and don't want to make any assumptions. But Yahoo does. It was straight away condemming May, calling her heartless (a quote from some jobsworth Labour councillor for a neighbouring borough whilst putting up loads of a compassionate pictures of Corbyn.

The power of the internet to sway public opinion is frightening!!!!
fartcatcher

Gove used to work for Murdoch and his mrs still does.

Rupert wasn't happy about the result and told Theresa to give Gove a job or he would withdraw support.
Heyho

Who owns Yahoo or has UK influence.
Dock

In a few of your post HH, you mention the influence of social media/ internet. One of the reasons that led to me deleting my Twitter account was due to the constant 'noise' of people forwarding political tweets or trying to put across their political beliefs in a limited number of characters. I expect Facebook is the same. I don't use or read any of the big social media sites. It clouds my reasoning and is annoying. I live my life without using or reading anything on Twitter or Facebook and get by just fine without them. In the last election I didn't read one tweet or social media post re any of the parties or candidates. I personally think that social media should be used to inform and educate people to policies and awareness re political issues, instead of as it is with people posting irrelevant ill-researched hateful bollocks about parties or candidates. I still hold out to the belief that most people can digest what they read and think independently about who they want in power. I think by saying that the outcome to the election result was down to brainwashing by social media is misunderstanding and underestimating the depth of the disenfranchisement of the British public re political representation and the lack of leadership and monumental faffery that we have witnessed over the last decade on all fronts. People have had enough, be that through social media influence or no social media influence.
Heyho

I agree with a lot of what you are saying Dock but actually feel a lot of the population are 'influenced' by what paper they read. I rollock my parents when they start quoting shite from their favourite rag, the Daily Mail.

But I do believe the problems of web based, supposedly news reporting, sites is a much greater threat and one that quite a lot of the population will not know is going on.

I personally have had enough of front line 'safe seat' politics and have for years irrespective of whatever party they are. Their publicity and goings on totally blots out the great work that the vast number of back benchers do once again irrespective of party politics. British politics needs a good shake up.
Dock

Heyho wrote:
I agree with a lot of what you are saying Dock but actually feel a lot of the population are 'influenced' by what paper they read. I rollock my parents when they start quoting shite from their favourite rag, the Daily Mail.

But I do believe the problems of web based, supposedly news reporting, sites is a much greater threat and one that quite a lot of the population will not know is going on.

I personally have had enough of front line 'safe seat' politics and have for years irrespective of whatever party they are. Their publicity and goings on totally blots out the great work that the vast number of back benchers do once again irrespective of party politics. British politics needs a good shake up.


Papers defo influence but I meant internet stuff. I think that there is so much noise about politics on social media that its too much for people to take on.

As for parents, my Mum and step Dad are the same, they said they didn't like Corbyn because he didn't sing the national anthem at a remembrance service. WTF!!!!!

The Saturday after the Friday when the election result was announced we happened to be visiting my Mum and on the way there I said to Mrs D that I bet they don't mention the result, and hey presto they said fuck all. Like a pair of daft miffed kids ha ha! In the final analysis I found their behaviour and lack of a desire to discuss the result as bloody churlish and typical of working class Tories.
Heyho

I have just flicked through the publics replies to the Finnsbury mosque incident on Yahoo. Oh my god!!! They are not clever.
Late Doors

"Friday June 9th 2017 was St Jeremy's Day".  Ace. We were in Vancouver, it was still Thursday Night when the jist of the results  came in. I polished off half the sherry decanter the BnB owners left out for their guests well into the morning. Me, a champagne socialist? not on your life
Dock

Tuned into the Andrew Marr show yesterday as I saw that Michael Gove was going to be interviewed. And as I suspected it was a masterclass in not answering the questions asked of him re DUP bung and end of austerity measures. The Tories are on the ropes.

































Oh, I forgot to mention a couple of weeks ago I joined the Labour Party. My 4 monthly membership fee might not smash the state but it's something at least. I've never been a member of a political party before in my life. Now is the time.
Late Doors

Congratulations. You are now one of those evil democracy types usurping the cozy ex Blairite club with your insane demands for reasonableness and a proper alternative to austerity
Heyho

Interesting thing this austerity lark isn't it. Don't get me wrong there is a certain section of society that is genuinely struggling but there is a far greater number who plead poverty and what an impact austerity is having yet have several 55" TV's, subscribe to Sky and have several cars on their drives.

Their parents and grandparents were far better at reigning in the hatches and putting up with what they had.

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