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fartcatcher

Corbyn

Good luck to the old feller. Didn't see it coming myself. He seems well-informed and answers questions honestly rather than coming out with bland statements designed not to upset the 'aspirational' classes.

Having said that, I expect him to get battered at the next election.
bearing

He's asking for suggestions on questions he can ask in PMs QT, democracy at work there folks...
Frazier Cranium

Any politician who the Daily Malice hates has to have some qualities to admire, so I'm in
Dock

Ace! I was pleasantly surprised at the result and when Mrs D told me I was stood in the kitchen with my jaw on the floor with a look that said "He fucking won???". Even if they never get in again it will give the last two younger generations an idea that not all politics is about safe middle ground. It shows that people have finally reached the end of their tether with centrist politics and the annexing of the working class in this country who's unions have slowly had their power eroded, an uninforced minimum wage, zero hour contracts, the massive rise in property prices, public transport being overpriced, poor care for the elderly in the form of private companies taking the piss with what they charge in care homes, and education being based on fucking league tables. Good luck Jezza! New Labour was a con. And as for Blair? Fuck Off. JUST.......FUCK.....OFF!
Sir Bulldog Craggwood

Terrible result for Labour, terrible result for Britain

We need a strong united opposition with a chance of winning an election that can scare the bejesus out of the governing party and carefully scrutinise the legislative process through parliament

Mark my words you won't see another Labour government till 2030

All you caring altruistic socialists (who don't have a bad bone or sinew of prejudice or hate in your bodies) are now in the hands and at the mercy of those wicked Tories you've been frothing about and telling yourselves how nasty they are

Yeah and fuck that Tony Blair - redistributing wealth and improving hospitals and schools and winning elections ...
Sir Bulldog Craggwood

annexing of the working class in this country who's unions have slowly had their power eroded, an uninforced minimum wage, zero hour contracts, the massive rise in property prices, public transport being overpriced


a lot of which might not have happened if New Labour had been a little more careful when allowing 3.5m immigrants to come here between 1997 and 2010 and force down wages and put massive new demands on property, schools, health etc
Frazier Cranium

Why so hostile, SBC, I've always believed in Socialism but I don't detest everything Conservative and I certainly don't think I'm an altruistic saint.

And Blair, what a paragon of virtue he has been proven to be.
Heyho

You know what. I really don't care. They are all as bad in front line politics. The safe seat 'politics is a career' MP's ruleth.
Frazier Cranium

That is EXACTLY what Labour shouldn't be about but many of them clearly have been.  I get the sense that those who voted for Corbyn are hoping and voting for change in many areas, and the 'safe seat' image, as well as being a pretend Tory party, are two of the prominent changes they want to see.

all this bobbins about 'Labour are dead' now etc etc, well where have you been for the last few years then you clever twonks?
Dock

Sir Bulldog Craggwood wrote:
annexing of the working class in this country who's unions have slowly had their power eroded, an uninforced minimum wage, zero hour contracts, the massive rise in property prices, public transport being overpriced


a lot of which might not have happened if New Labour had been a little more careful when allowing 3.5m immigrants to come here between 1997 and 2010 and force down wages and put massive new demands on property, schools, health etc


I agree. You do get defensive Dawg. At no point in my post did I say that the above mentioned was because of the Tories. I think the mess our country is in is down to successive governments not governing efficiently. Be them Conservative or Labour. You jumped straight to the conclusion that I was having a go at the Cons. Which I wasn't.
Dock

Sir Bulldog Craggwood wrote:
Terrible result for Labour, terrible result for Britain

We need a strong united opposition with a chance of winning an election that can scare the bejesus out of the governing party and carefully scrutinise the legislative process through parliament

Mark my words you won't see another Labour government till 2030

All you caring altruistic socialists (who don't have a bad bone or sinew of prejudice or hate in your bodies) are now in the hands and at the mercy of those wicked Tories you've been frothing about and telling yourselves how nasty they are

Yeah and fuck that Tony Blair - redistributing wealth and improving hospitals and schools and winning elections ...


So you think hospitals are doing ok do you? I work in statutory services in Leeds Dawg. I deal with the health service on a daily basis and with staff from Consultants through to Ward Assistant's, and if you think things are good in the NHS I would advise logging off your computer and getting out in the real world. I'm speaking from experience, not from what I've read on some online stats page or a blog by some political journalist who doesn't know shit from clay.
Dock

Sir Bulldog Craggwood wrote:
Terrible result for Labour, terrible result for Britain

We need a strong united opposition with a chance of winning an election that can scare the bejesus out of the governing party and carefully scrutinise the legislative process through parliament

Mark my words you won't see another Labour government till 2030

All you caring altruistic socialists (who don't have a bad bone or sinew of prejudice or hate in your bodies) are now in the hands and at the mercy of those wicked Tories you've been frothing about and telling yourselves how nasty they are

Yeah and fuck that Tony Blair - redistributing wealth and improving hospitals and schools and winning elections ...


Quote: 'Terrible Result for Labour, terrible result for Britain'. You fail to state why? How could you possibly know without the benefit of hindsight? Unless your a clairvoyant. Same goes for the 2030 Labour government quote. You have absolutely no fact to base either of those statements on.
Heyho

I always thought Labour stood for socialism and there is a lot, on paper, to like about socialism.

However Blairism was nothing more than centre right Torism brought in on a tidal wave disillusionment due to the fuck wits that the Tory party had turn into after 19 years.

The problem Corbyn is facing if he wishes to try and bring back Socialism to the Labour party and not left wing politics is that society has changed and there is much more importance attached to material wealth nowadays - BMW cars, big flat screen tellies etc etc. Keep up with the Jones's is rife. I see it on my suburban housing estate I live in. Cockerpoo's and other designer dogs aplenty.

A lot of this stems back to what I believe was a genuine niaivity by Thatcher. She actual thought that people would #love thy neighbour'. Like fuck they would. That extra money that started permeating into their pay packets was gobbled up on luxury white goods.

Corbyn needs to be sensible here but I for feel there wil be some form of rear guard action from the recently ousted old Blairists. Maybe even a New Labour party.
Sir Bulldog Craggwood

Dock wrote:
Sir Bulldog Craggwood wrote:
Terrible result for Labour, terrible result for Britain

We need a strong united opposition with a chance of winning an election that can scare the bejesus out of the governing party and carefully scrutinise the legislative process through parliament

Mark my words you won't see another Labour government till 2030

All you caring altruistic socialists (who don't have a bad bone or sinew of prejudice or hate in your bodies) are now in the hands and at the mercy of those wicked Tories you've been frothing about and telling yourselves how nasty they are

Yeah and fuck that Tony Blair - redistributing wealth and improving hospitals and schools and winning elections ...


Quote: 'Terrible Result for Labour, terrible result for Britain'. You fail to state why? How could you possibly know without the benefit of hindsight? Unless your a clairvoyant. Same goes for the 2030 Labour government quote. You have absolutely no fact to base either of those statements on.


Because it will mean about 4 consecutive Tory governments while Labour get weaker and weaker as talent,voters and donors give up on it

I don't claim clairvoyance but I've spent a lot of time studying British election results, politics and spent time in Westminster and I know (perhaps better than most) what it takes for an opposition to shift an encumbent party with all the advantages going for it. Look how long it took the Conservatives to whittle down that 1997 majority that Blair had - four elections and even then they couldn't get a majority on their own.

What I'm saying is at this rate Labour will lose more seats at the next one and then have to hope they can win back the deficit of seats over the next two elections - hence 2030
Sir Bulldog Craggwood

Dock wrote:
Sir Bulldog Craggwood wrote:
Terrible result for Labour, terrible result for Britain

We need a strong united opposition with a chance of winning an election that can scare the bejesus out of the governing party and carefully scrutinise the legislative process through parliament

Mark my words you won't see another Labour government till 2030

All you caring altruistic socialists (who don't have a bad bone or sinew of prejudice or hate in your bodies) are now in the hands and at the mercy of those wicked Tories you've been frothing about and telling yourselves how nasty they are

Yeah and fuck that Tony Blair - redistributing wealth and improving hospitals and schools and winning elections ...


So you think hospitals are doing ok do you? I work in statutory services in Leeds Dawg. I deal with the health service on a daily basis and with staff from Consultants through to Ward Assistant's, and if you think things are good in the NHS I would advise logging off your computer and getting out in the real world. I'm speaking from experience, not from what I've read on some online stats page or a blog by some political journalist who doesn't know shit from clay.


Yes theres always awful things that go on and patients that are failed. Who hasn't had a friend or relative in some way let down who could've been treated a bit better or with a better outcome but we don't focus one the incredible success of the NHS that saves and improves 100s of 1000s of lives every year
Sir Bulldog Craggwood

Dock wrote:
Sir Bulldog Craggwood wrote:
annexing of the working class in this country who's unions have slowly had their power eroded, an uninforced minimum wage, zero hour contracts, the massive rise in property prices, public transport being overpriced


a lot of which might not have happened if New Labour had been a little more careful when allowing 3.5m immigrants to come here between 1997 and 2010 and force down wages and put massive new demands on property, schools, health etc


I agree. You do get defensive Dawg. At no point in my post did I say that the above mentioned was because of the Tories. I think the mess our country is in is down to successive governments not governing efficiently. Be them Conservative or Labour. You jumped straight to the conclusion that I was having a go at the Cons. Which I wasn't.


I don't mean to come over defensive/aggressive but think a little martial spirit and a splash of vinegar can liven up the discussion!
bearing

I'm pretty sure the members that voted for Jeremy realise that he's not a long term (or even a medium term) answer to the Labour party. What Corbyn  is, is a shot in the arm, his policies are a huge shift to the left which in my opinion will take the party towards his positioning but the position of the party won't ultimately reach it. Pretty sure that the party as a whole will soften his ideas and align the party along more traditional socialist values.

Whatever happens in the future, at least we're going to see in both the (hopefully) SNP and this 'new' Labour  are two parties that will hold this government to task.

Of course, I could well be talking out of my arse.
Frazier Cranium

At least you admit it
Grind

Ah ,but which side of his arse is Bearing speaking out of?

* Guesses social democrat. *
Sir Bulldog Craggwood

Frazier Cranium wrote:
At least you admit it
 
Heyho

I think we are all Sociacaps
fartcatcher

God id now refusing to save the Queen because Corbyn didn't join in the national anthem. Fact.
Grind

fartcatcher wrote:
God id now refusing to save the Queen because Corbyn didn't join in the national anthem. Fact.


To be fair, he does have a pretty safe seat.
Late Doors

Sir Bulldog Craggwood wrote:


All you caring altruistic socialists (who don't have a bad bone or sinew of prejudice or hate in your bodies) are now in the hands and at the mercy of those wicked Tories you've been frothing about and telling yourselves how nasty they are

Yeah and fuck that Tony Blair - redistributing wealth and improving hospitals and schools and winning elections ...


 Presume that was for my benefit following the right wing comedian thing. It's a genuine curiosity of mine, where are they in any of the arts? I know in general left wing views are emotive associated with creativity but that can't explain it entirely.

Hardly frothing either old chap. I was mildly irritated at the Tory savior of the free world conqueror of fascism thing but the cack handed connection between them and health care, education, tolerance, welfare etc just had me chuckling so maybe the answer to the original question is right here. You forgot of course the Tory 1964 slogan  " if you want a nigger for a neighbor vote labor" they used to win seats.

If anyone is frothing its you and the rest of your lot stamping indignant feet screaming for the head of Piers Morgan just because your lad Coulson has been banged to rights. As it happens i agree but it's about hard sustainable  and deliverable credible evidence not sulky conjecture. Until then he's innocent, y'know, like lovely Rebecca is.

Altruistic socialist without a bad bone or sinew of prejudice or hate in your bodies ????

Wrong domino I'm afraid. I am not that soldier. I'm all for fairness of opportunity, support and a living wage for all regardless of aspiration but anyone who refuses that can fend for themselves and if they rob or hurt anyone else doing it they can be publicly sodomised by apes for all i care along with litter droppers and Tony Blair as it happens. I will happily apply the salt.

Look, I've said before I like and respect you but i don't like having my sentiments polarized and exaggerated for petty political point scoring. That kind of shit tactic is bad enough on the political stage but here its slightly annoying. Not everyone who is against Tory policy especially austerity is a saint or communist.
Late Doors

So let me get this right. The Tories don't like Corbyn because he isn't the right kind of opposition. Stone me.

This country has made a decent fist of the oscillating swings from center right to center left over the years. We need it but the right wing creep of labour these last twenty years has rendered any Tory opposition token at best.

At the last election Cameron got in with 80% vote amongst the over 65s whilst labour did better in the under 25s. Less than half that age group actually voted though. In other words Millions have already abandoned labour precisely because they aren't a recognizable opposition. One of the first things Corbyn needs to do is get back the missing and apathetic labour voters. None of the other candidates would.

And just what is a talented politician? The very concept makes me suspicious. All a politician needs to be talented is conviction and communication. Labour now have that in Corbyn not the shape shifting shithouses we have had these last twenty years.

Im in catch up mode here after the Hol so maybe ive got the wrong end of the stick. Ill give things a proper read in due course
Heyho

He got voted in by a retweaked 'fair' democratic voting system that helped the Blair revolution get in.

Live with it Labour

And as for the media - god shut up. Just let the man shoot himself in the foot. Some good ideas - renationalising the railways. Ermmmm but how do we pay for it. That's always been a big prolem for left wing politics in a capitalist society
fartcatcher

Thank God the Tories won, otherwise Katie Hopkins would have emigrated.
Frazier Cranium

Fact - Katie Hopkins and SBC never seen in the same room together
Grind

Corbyn a trap. There's no way out.
bearing

Well at least Corbyn never shagged a sus.
fartcatcher

Grind wrote:
Corbyn a trap. There's no way out.


I shall nick that and claim it as my own.
Grind

Fine Young Cannibals might not be so far from the truth with Labour these days.

They'll drive you crazy.

* Errr. That's it. Prolly. *
Dock

Grind wrote:
Corbyn a trap. There's no way out.


Ace!

Something no one has mentioned yet: Jeremy Corbyn was invented in Leeds, FACT!
smiling badger

I am clueless to most things and even more so with Politics. But this guy seems a breath of fresh air to me.
Im not clueless enough to thing that he has a chance of ever running this country but i love the way that he has ruffled feathers already.
Mainly for not having his top button done up or not singing the national anthem.
He'd get my vote for sure.
Grind

Am I right to assume that The Queen isn't allowed to vote?
Dock

smiling badger wrote:
I am clueless to most things and even more so with Politics. But this guy seems a breath of fresh air to me.
Im not clueless enough to thing that he has a chance of ever running this country but i love the way that he has ruffled feathers already.
Mainly for not having his top button done up or not singing the national anthem.
He'd get my vote for sure.


Seconded. That's what I like about him. It's shown those safe middle of the road fuckers from every party and the media have pissed their pants when somebody has turned up who has opinions that differ from their consensus. I enjoy watching how he handles himself with interviewers as well.
Butts

Excited by all this, very excited. Renewed my membership after 20 years and can't wait to get on the streets in 2020.
Sir Bulldog Craggwood

Frazier Cranium wrote:
Fact - Katie Hopkins and SBC never seen in the same room together


Stupid comparison - the woman is a professional provocateur and a heartless cunt
bearing

Something that caught my ear the other day was that Corbyn's wish to crush Trident was being challenged by his cabinet. His response was to point out he had a mandate to change how the party was run. Observers suggest that he could put votes out to the party as a whole including the grass roots folk.

What a novel way to run politics, to let voters have their say on major issues.
Sir Bulldog Craggwood

bearing wrote:
Something that caught my ear the other day was that Corbyn's wish to crush Trident was being challenged by his cabinet. His response was to point out he had a mandate to change how the party was run. Observers suggest that he could put votes out to the party as a whole including the grass roots folk.

What a novel way to run politics, to let voters have their say on major issues.


I thought it was the unions including Len Mccluskey's Unite that ordered it not to be discussed
bearing

Sir Bulldog Craggwood wrote:
bearing wrote:
Something that caught my ear the other day was that Corbyn's wish to crush Trident was being challenged by his cabinet. His response was to point out he had a mandate to change how the party was run. Observers suggest that he could put votes out to the party as a whole including the grass roots folk.

What a novel way to run politics, to let voters have their say on major issues.


I thought it was the unions including Len Mccluskey's Unite that ordered it not to be discussed


His cabinet aren't happy either.  Not sure why the unions are rattling their sabres, Trident is hardly keeping the country going in work is it?

On his point of not pressing the button, I see no reason for him to press it, it's not as if we'd still be alive if he did.

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