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fartcatcher

Ched Evans

Interesting debate down the BSC last night. Surprisingly, it was ex-copper (and now head of security at the Ricoh) Ian who was most strongly in favour of allowing him to ply his trade again with the Sheff U as he had served his time, and like any criminal should be allowed a second chance.

Both Lee Hughes and the guy from Plymouth are playing again, and apparently have sorted themselves out - and they killed people.

There are plenty of others as well who have a bit of previous.

Personally I wouldn't let him back in until he shows some remorse.

With the backing of the millionaire father of his girlfriend (who bizarrely hasn't dumped him) and his own family, he is still fighting to have the unanimous verdict overturned. His pals used the opportunity of free speech offered by Twitter to 'out' the girl he raped.
So there's f all chance.

Imo he would better advised to wind his neck in as I don't think even Sheff U  will touch him with the proverbial long shitty whilst he continues to attract adverse publicity.

We all agreed that Ched was a stupid name though.
Frazier Cranium

Is it short for Cheddar?

I think you're spot on there with the 'show remorse' comment... I listened to an interview with the Oldham chairman who signed Lee Hughes.  He said they signed him because he showed genuine remorse/contrition.  I don't know about that but if the chairman was being truthful then I respect that decision.  Sorry for using the term but until Evans actually admits his guilt then this is all a 'no brainer' for Sheff U as far as I'm concerned.
Heyho

Still reckon society needs to address the issue of so many people thinking its ok to get so pissed out of their heads they are not capable of keeping out of trouble. And thats for anything such as stepping out in front of a car to being too pissed to say no.

It's something I try to instil into my kids. If they listen, god knows.

Not condoning his actions because although he wasn't the one chucking alcohol down her neck he would have had a very good idea she was too pissed.
Heyho

Still reckon society needs to address the issue of so many people thinking its ok to get so pissed out of their heads they are not capable of keeping out of trouble. And thats for anything such as stepping out in front of a car to being too pissed to say no.

It's something I try to instil into my kids. If they listen, god knows.

Not condoning his actions because although he wasn't the one chucking alcohol down her neck he would have had a very good idea she was too pissed.
Late Doors

If somebody can't get back to work after coming out if prison then we might as well just send everybody to devils island or something. What i can't understand is how he got out after serving so little of his sentence if he's showing no remorse. Surely one of the main conditions of early release is rehabilitation, that is the main reason for prison right?. How can anyone be rehabilitated if they don't think they have done anything wrong.
Frazier Cranium

Good point.

Not in agreement about the letting people return to work comment though LD, this isn't a normal case and in my 'umble, he shouldn't be allowed to return to work as a professional footballer.  Not here anyway, it just doesn't seem right but there again, if his appeal succeeds and he somehow is found not guilty now, then it will even get dafter a situation.
fartcatcher

Ched's short for Chedwyn btw. Neither of them would make it through any spellchecker.

What pisses me off is the thought of little kids in Sheffield who probably don't understand what he's done walking round with his shirt number and name on.

His behaviour both before and after the crime suggests he's an arrogant twat. Perhaps i'm being harsh.
Frazier Cranium

He's thick as pig shit.  He's released a video statement to ask for a second chance but he hasn't apologised to the girl he was convicted of raping and he has apparently said he will continue to work to clear his name.

It's too knotted is all of this.
Heyho

fartcatcher wrote:
What pisses me off is the thought of little kids in Sheffield who probably don't understand what he's done walking round with his shirt number and name on.


I hope they don't stray into Rotherham then!!!!!
Dock

Totally agree about if somebody has served their time they should be able to work BUT, as Codge say’s this isn’t working in a warehouse it’s being in a very privileged job in which you are a role model and in the public eye. I don’t think he should be taken on by any football club because it darkens the image of the sport. I know you all groan when I mention racing but a slightly similar debate came up recently regarding a jockey called Fergal Lynch. Lynch was banned from riding in Britain for ten years by the British Horseracing Authority for the most despicable act a jock can carry out professionally: Stopping a horse in a race for his own personal financial gain. He’s now back racing after his ban has been served. But IMO he should never race here again. Because whilst he’s still riding there will always be that tiny doubt in peoples mind about his honesty. To conclude, anyone that stains the image and integrity of any sport by their association with it shouldn’t be allowed back into it. They have capacity of thought for their actions and responsibilities that come with such a great working life doing what they love so when they decide to fuck that up completely they should be banished from it for the rest of their lives. But with this being English football a sport who’s players, owners, and fans are lower than a snakes belly when it comes to integrity he’ll probably be welcomed back with open arms.
Forest

Dock wrote:
Totally agree about if somebody has served their time they should be able to work BUT, as Codge say’s this isn’t working in a warehouse it’s being in a very privileged job in which you are a role model and in the public eye. I don’t think he should be taken on by any football club because it darkens the image of the sport. I know you all groan when I mention racing but a slightly similar debate came up recently regarding a jockey called Fergal Lynch. Lynch was banned from riding in Britain for ten years by the British Horseracing Authority for the most despicable act a jock can carry out professionally: Stopping a horse in a race for his own personal financial gain. He’s now back racing after his ban has been served. But IMO he should never race here again. Because whilst he’s still riding there will always be that tiny doubt in peoples mind about his honesty. To conclude, anyone that stains the image and integrity of any sport by their association with it shouldn’t be allowed back into it. They have capacity of thought for their actions and responsibilities that come with such a great working life doing what they love so when they decide to fuck that up completely they should be banished from it for the rest of their lives. But with this being English football a sport who’s players, owners, and fans are lower than a snakes belly when it comes to integrity he’ll probably be welcomed back with open arms.


Can't see your argument as he wasn't on a football pitch at the time, he didn't bring the sport into disrepute unlike the jockey you mentioned.
Dock

My point is it doesn't matter if it's on the pitch or not. That kind of position and profession comes with responsibilities. And if you can't act accordingly and your public image tarnishes the greater good of a sport or organisation you should fuck off and do something else.
Forest

Dock wrote:
My point is it doesn't matter if it's on the pitch or not. That kind of position and profession comes with responsibilities. And if you can't act accordingly and your public image tarnishes the greater good of a sport or organisation you should fuck off and do something else.


Why didn't you just say that instead of faffing on about horses then.
fartcatcher

The more I read the more I believe that Evans isn't after justice, he's after revenge.
Dock

Forest wrote:
Dock wrote:
My point is it doesn't matter if it's on the pitch or not. That kind of position and profession comes with responsibilities. And if you can't act accordingly and your public image tarnishes the greater good of a sport or organisation you should fuck off and do something else.


Why didn't you just say that instead of faffing on about horses then.


I used a similar example of somebody serving a sentence/punishment and then returning to their sport. Kin' ell Foz keep up lad.
Late Doors

That what i don't get, why should sport be treated differently. In every other way from freedom of contract and other  market forces to the rip off way it treats its customers  it's just like any other ahem, industry. If it's because impressionable kids watch it then I'm afraid it's got well beyond the role model status a long time ago. In fact I'd say with its greed, moral conduct, behaviour, win at all costs principles, degrading attitude to the paying public and celebrity worship it has already defined what we want kids to grow up as. Might as well chuck rapist in with the other criminals, sorry thats a bit flippant but its early.

Courts, the judicial and penal systems should be the ones managing the sentence, punishing etc i don't think its everyday day life post sentence that should carry that on. I'll concede Sex offences might be the exception and some protective process put in place for certain occupations and certain offenders but  is football really one of those occupations is he really one if those offenders. I haven't a clue about the latter cos i haven't been interested in following it.  I do know that football isn't some kind of sacred occupation where it and its worshippers need protection from potential preying sex fiends. It's just another occupation and the footballers just employees.

Again what fucks me off most is that he has been given a paltry sentence for an extremely serious offence and been let out early seemingly not giving a fuck about what he has done. Contrast that to those Leeds lads carrying on in Hudders town center who got several years for no more than fucking about like kids do. Those others who got sent down for years for scrapping with the spurs fans on Boar Lane. Then again with what's happened in SA. Nah the fault lies firmly and squarely in the ridiculous judicial and penal systems. They are the institutions that are supposed to influence impressionable kids and everyone else for that matter. All they do though is look after the establishment along with the rich and famous. It's  none of  footballs business, certainly not these days when the game has already sold its soul.
Dock

Late Doors wrote:
That what i don't get, why should sport be treated differently. In every other way from freedom of contract and other  market forces to the rip off way it treats its customers  it's just like any other ahem, industry. If it's because impressionable kids watch it then I'm afraid it's got well beyond the role model status a long time ago. In fact I'd say with its greed, moral conduct, behaviour, win at all costs principles, degrading attitude to the paying public and celebrity worship it has already defined what we want kids to grow up as. Might as well chuck rapist in with the other criminals, sorry thats a bit flippant but its early.

Courts, the judicial and penal systems should be the ones managing the sentence, punishing etc i don't think its everyday day life post sentence that should carry that on. I'll concede Sex offences might be the exception and some protective process put in place for certain occupations and certain offenders but  is football really one of those occupations is he really one if those offenders. I haven't a clue about the latter cos i haven't been interested in following it.  I do know that football isn't some kind of sacred occupation where it and its worshippers need protection from potential preying sex fiends. It's just another occupation and the footballers just employees.

Again what fucks me off most is that he has been given a paltry sentence for an extremely serious offence and been let out early seemingly not giving a fuck about what he has done. Contrast that to those Leeds lads carrying on in Hudders town center who got several years for no more than fucking about like kids do. Those others who got sent down for years for scrapping with the spurs fans on Boar Lane. Then again with what's happened in SA. Nah the fault lies firmly and squarely in the ridiculous judicial and penal systems. They are the institutions that are supposed to influence impressionable kids and everyone else for that matter. All they do though is look after the establishment along with the rich and famous. It's  none of  footballs business, certainly not these days when the game has already sold its soul.


Re: sportsmen and women not being role models anymore.

So are you saying fuck it's too late, let's have whichever idiots want to play? A lot of sport is tarnished by idiots playing it and running it so that's why it's even more important to try and strive for decency and fairplay and not condone people like Evans getting back into such an influential role. I'm disappointed and surprised at your apathy LD as you are so passionate and knowledgeable about such a variety of sports.
Frazier Cranium

I think your use of the word 'condone' is perfect there, as it is a crucial point in this whole situation - people who want Evans back in football are, I think it's argued, being seen as condoning his actions, that of being a convicted rapist.  Plenty argue back that our society is supposed to be liberal enough to allow him back as he has at least officially paid his debt.

It's all too vague for me, I just know that I'd be disgusted, appalled etc etc if he was a Leeds player and they allowed him back in to the club.  But we've had too many of our own convicted scrotes this century, to make football an even scummier cess pit than it was before.  

Football is massive now compared to the 70s when I was a kid, dreaming about football glory and idolizing certain players.  I don't even know if 'role models' even existed then but for the life of me I can't relate with that description now... maybe I'm just missing something or am an ignoramus.
Late Doors

Who's condoning it? not me and I'm far from indifferent or apathetic. It's about perspective and context. Fewer things make me angrier than distorted justice that differentiates between rich and poor. It's happening all the time all over the world but is that not supposed to matter because its either thousands of miles away or doesn't immediately affect us. That's what i call indifference and apathy.

Lest it gets boring making my same point several times it is for the justice system  to manage justice and be accountable for any violation of justice. If it lets us down as it is doing time and time again we should be directing our anger towards that system and not the game. That is what I call apathy and indifference.

Again i ask how come an unrepentant rapist  has been let out early? It's because our jails are full of  people locked up for petty crimes while the worlds real criminals continue to make war, plunder our wealth and steal our rights. I know full well where the real indifference and apathy lay.

it is also or at least should be an inalienable right in a fair society for someone to be able to earn a living after doing the time for a crime. I suspect "the game" would be violating some human rights by denying an ex con the right to work anyway and rightfully so.  But don't worry  those rights will soon be wiped away if these aresholes get another term. As long as we can deport a few foreign criminals that's ok then. That is what I call indifference and apathy.

There is a real and fundamental threat to our democracy, freedoms and rights if we shift our focus away from the real instruments of justice and expect sport to be our moral guidance and justice dispenser. If the fans don't want someone like Evans then don't go to the game, or turn their back on him, or boo him anything to let him know he isn't welcome. Make it as unpleasant as possible for him, take some initiative themselves. As for impressionable kids getting the wrong message then again i say get the countries justice system right and stop letting rich people off and throwing the full might of the law onto poorer people. That would be a good start in creating a good impression of the system. Stop passing the buck of justice onto sport.

Yeah I might have been flippant re the point about its fucked might as well get fuckter but there's an element of inconsistency if not hypocrisy . Why aren't fans up in arms about all the other shysters? One in particular, that  bent spiv down that there for instance where  our beloved justice system seems to be at odds with every other sentient being on the planet in deeming him fit n proper. How  can a justice system allow that.

Sorry mate you might not agree with me and that's fine ( don't like the disappointed thing though   ) but I am not apathetic or indifferent, far from it. i just think the law, justice, crime and punishment processes are way way bigger than football.
Grind

Simply based on the context of bringing the game into disrepute and "role model" transgressions on the pitch, there's a pretty good argument for saying Evans should be allowed to play and Suarez definitely shouldn't.

Obviously the opposite is always going to be more likely, but not for better footballing reasons.

Or moral reasons.

I'd personally rather I neither saw nor heard of Evans ever again, but that's got nothing to do with justice which, if the courts performed their functions correctly, has supposedly been seen to have been served.

Again, I'm not agreeing with it, but, to coin a footballing turn of phrase, surely you can't move the goalposts after the fact without questions being raised about every justice-related decision?
Frazier Cranium

Piece written by Henry Winter in the Telegraph

CHED EVANS MUST ISSUE A PROPER APOLOGY

Ched Evans clearly needs educating in how to respect women. The 25-year-old striker has still not demonstrated any remorse towards the woman whose life has been trashed by his actions.

It will be a day of ignominy for English football if Evans can walk straight back in. Some at Sheffield United want their former player to be given a new contract. Others are horrified by the idea. Surely everyone at Bramall Lane must know the damage it would do to their reputation as a community club, a family club.

Before Evans can step on to a football field again, he needs to receive some counselling and to show some contrition. A proper apology, rather than that scripted PR disaster of a video statement, would be a start.
Grind

Frazier Cranium wrote:
Piece written by Henry Winter in the Telegraph

CHED EVANS MUST ISSUE A PROPER APOLOGY

Ched Evans clearly needs educating in how to respect women. The 25-year-old striker has still not demonstrated any remorse towards the woman whose life has been trashed by his actions.

It will be a day of ignominy for English football if Evans can walk straight back in. Some at Sheffield United want their former player to be given a new contract. Others are horrified by the idea. Surely everyone at Bramall Lane must know the damage it would do to their reputation as a community club, a family club.

Before Evans can step on to a football field again, he needs to receive some counselling and to show some contrition. A proper apology, rather than that scripted PR disaster of a video statement, would be a start.


I actually fully agree with all of that but........

......ignoring the fact that this is a rape case (which, again, anyone with a normal moral compass should not do), if the justice system has run its course and the guilty party has fully served the time/penalty duly given to them, do they also have to subsequently show remorse and contrition?

The sensible answer (at least for Sheffield United) is obviously yes.

A bit of an "Ethics for Dummies" course, where the legal and moral routes clearly fork in the road.
Dock

Late Doors wrote:
Who's condoning it? not me and I'm far from indifferent or apathetic. It's about perspective and context. Fewer things make me angrier than distorted justice that differentiates between rich and poor. It's happening all the time all over the world but is that not supposed to matter because its either thousands of miles away or doesn't immediately affect us. That's what i call indifference and apathy.

Lest it gets boring making my same point several times it is for the justice system  to manage justice and be accountable for any violation of justice. If it lets us down as it is doing time and time again we should be directing our anger towards that system and not the game. That is what I call apathy and indifference.

Again i ask how come an unrepentant rapist  has been let out early? It's because our jails are full of  people locked up for petty crimes while the worlds real criminals continue to make war, plunder our wealth and steal our rights. I know full well where the real indifference and apathy lay.

it is also or at least should be an inalienable right in a fair society for someone to be able to earn a living after doing the time for a crime. I suspect "the game" would be violating some human rights by denying an ex con the right to work anyway and rightfully so.  But don't worry  those rights will soon be wiped away if these aresholes get another term. As long as we can deport a few foreign criminals that's ok then. That is what I call indifference and apathy.

There is a real and fundamental threat to our democracy, freedoms and rights if we shift our focus away from the real instruments of justice and expect sport to be our moral guidance and justice dispenser. If the fans don't want someone like Evans then don't go to the game, or turn their back on him, or boo him anything to let him know he isn't welcome. Make it as unpleasant as possible for him, take some initiative themselves. As for impressionable kids getting the wrong message then again i say get the countries justice system right and stop letting rich people off and throwing the full might of the law onto poorer people. That would be a good start in creating a good impression of the system. Stop passing the buck of justice onto sport.

Yeah I might have been flippant re the point about its fucked might as well get fuckter but there's an element of inconsistency if not hypocrisy . Why aren't fans up in arms about all the other shysters? One in particular, that  bent spiv down that there for instance where  our beloved justice system seems to be at odds with every other sentient being on the planet in deeming him fit n proper. How  can a justice system allow that.

Sorry mate you might not agree with me and that's fine ( don't like the disappointed thing though   ) but I am not apathetic or indifferent, far from it. i just think the law, justice, crime and punishment processes are way way bigger than football.


I understand now. Eloquently put bud. Re: disappointed. That's not a recent thing. I've always thought that you were an out n out let-down of a shitbag! There, I've said it. And get a haircut you fucking lout!
Dock

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29980279

As if we didn't guess this outcome to the whole sordid business. Shame on Sheff Utd!
fartcatcher

Dock wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29980279

As if we didn't guess this outcome to the whole sordid business. Shame on Sheff Utd!


Morality is very low on football's agenda.
Grind

fartcatcher wrote:
Dock wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29980279

As if we didn't guess this outcome to the whole sordid business. Shame on Sheff Utd!


Morality is very low on football's agenda.


Inside right.
Grind

Here's a sort of related gedanken kind of conundrum.

Even ignoring the obvious (but surely separate?) emotive and moral issues, I can understand why most people don't want Ched to play professional football ever again, even though his crime (presumably) had nothing to do with, well, his playing of football and I would question how much in the way of opportunity to commit anything similar on a football pitch there might be.

So, I was thinking....

Where do we stand on Lee Hughes playing football and, if I'm being really specific here, how do we feel about him (again presumably) being allowed to drive again (which is much more relevant)?

I'm not trying to be a git, I was just trying to logically rationalise what I might think is right and proper, if anything.

Apologies if anyone is getting pissed off at me: I'm not trying to deliberately cause offence.
Grind

Full disclosure: I do have a bit of a dog in that last argument.

My dad was killed by an underaged drunk driver back in 1965 who, through a technicality, served no time (rich daddy) and, at least to my knowledge, is still happily free and driving around to this day.
Dalek

I understand this is an emotive issue - and everybody has their opinions.

What is the REAL issue here?

Can we examine the situation by taking a step back and looking at it from a distance?

Evans has been tried and convicted of the rape offence by a legitimate court.

He was sentenced in accordance with current sentencing guidelines and has served his sentence as handed down by the legitimate authority recognised and trusted by UK society, with his release done according to the rules in place.

He has denied and continues to deny his guilt of the offence - and I understand he is continuing with his appeal against conviction. This process is ongoing (with the latest info in the public domain).

As this appeal is ongoing, he will not express any remorse for his actions - as to do so will undoubtedly adversely prejudice his case.  Such a person in this legal situation can not therefore any form of apology at this stage.

(So now we come to his release)
If he was a traffic warden, shop worker, electrician, mechanic etc, would he be prevented from resuming work following the completion of his sentence?  What about if he was in showbiz?

Is the UK justice system not based upon rehabilitation of offenders?  If he was employed in any of the above, he would be encouraged to find work and rejoin society as a contributive member.

If society wants offenders (any offenders) to rejoin society as a contributing member, then the job they are suited for is a natural route back in to rejoining society - with the proviso that they are not employed in sensitive positions that may be compromised by the nature of their conviction.

Please note that I am in no way, shape or form defending Evans as what he has been convicted of is reprehensible in every form, but I am defending our established judicial system (which is not perfect, but is one of the best in the world).

The system is designed to treat everybody as an equal under the eyes of the law - irrespective of position in society.

If we as a society want to further restrict rehabilitation of offenders if the position they have is well (over)paid or are in a public position, then the system will break down very quickly as it will no longer be even handed.

I believe there were over 150000 objections to Evans resuming his career.  I am sure that Sheffield Utd would be very pleased if all of these interested and concerned people turned up to support the club at every home game! (They might have to redevelop Bramall Lane somewhat to accommodate them however).

One last but important consideration - if Evans' appeal is successful, and his conviction is quashed, why would society then want to prevent him from pursuing his career?

So, the REAL question is does the UK need a separate judicial system for public figures and punish them more harshly as a form of retribution or do we maintain the current "one system for all" system?
Grind

I wish I'd written that.
Heyho

Yes, an excellent statement Dalek

Perhaps another poignant point is that we now have trial by journalism and the internet.
Frazier Cranium

Grind, I did mention Lee Hughes ages ago in this, well it felt like ages, and the Oldham chairman explaining that the reason they allowed Hughes at their club was because he had shown genuine contrition for his crime.  Whether or not you believe that chairman is up to the individual, but Hughes couldn't exactly deny his guilt and therefore he HAD to show contrition otherwise he was a psycho!  Evans doesn't even agree he is guilty, so if he really believes he is innocent then he can't show contrition.  True, he could have, and his entourage, conducted theirselves in a more respectful way, and not hounded the rape victim.

It's not a difficult dilemma for me isn't this one.  But there again, he is only training at the moment, he hasn't been signed on or anything as yet.  

ps Grind, I'm very sorry about your personal experience in that.
Grind

Frazier Cranium wrote:
Grind, I did mention Lee Hughes ages ago in this, well it felt like ages, and the Oldham chairman explaining that the reason they allowed Hughes at their club was because he had shown genuine contrition for his crime.  Whether or not you believe that chairman is up to the individual, but Hughes couldn't exactly deny his guilt and therefore he HAD to show contrition otherwise he was a psycho!  Evans doesn't even agree he is guilty, so if he really believes he is innocent then he can't show contrition.  True, he could have, and his entourage, conducted theirselves in a more respectful way, and not hounded the rape victim.

It's not a difficult dilemma for me isn't this one.  But there again, he is only training at the moment, he hasn't been signed on or anything as yet.  

ps Grind, I'm very sorry about your personal experience in that.


To be fair, I was only a toddler (I'd just turned two) and it was all I ever knew, although (obviously) it would have been nice to have known my dad.

It was my mum who I feel/felt (she died at 54) sorry for. She lost her husband at 24 having just moved "home" to a new city following a year's stint abroad (I was born in the US on an overseas assignment - hence why I'm able to be here now!), with family seventy-odd miles away, which was, well, miiiiles away back then.

She never remarried and, unless I was totally oblivious, she never even dated again.

Poor mum.
Grind

Just to finish off the tear-jerker - not something I think about too often, but probably should.

My mum was also in the car crash with my dad in the back seat of the car on the way to a social dance meant to cheer her up after a recent miscarriage.

Seat belts weren't compulsory back then.

Oh well. Stuff happens.
Grind

I've been hoping Angelina Jolie would consider me for adoption.
Frazier Cranium

That would mean Braddada.

It's only as you get older that you realise, or suspect you realise, you ideally would have been more thoughtful as a child.  But that's the point, you're a child and life is about learning how to be when adulthood arrives.  I can't wait to find out what adulthood is like
Grind

Frazier Cranium wrote:
That would mean Braddada.

It's only as you get older that you realise, or suspect you realise, you ideally would have been more thoughtful as a child.  But that's the point, you're a child and life is about learning how to be when adulthood arrives.  I can't wait to find out what adulthood is like


Me too.
Heyho

Jessica Ennis-Hill wants out of having her name on a stand at Bramall Road now if he goes back there.

Well luv you were less particular when you got sponsored by Santander, one of those squeeky clean international banks, now were you.
Dock

Some good posts on this thread especially Daleks.

I just can't get my head around it being ok for him to play again (although Sheff Utd are damned whatever they decide because allowing him to train with them, never mind play again, is seen as vindication of him by the football club in the majority of people's minds).

I'm all for anybody having a second chance but again I reiterate to the gentlemen of the house that if you are in any kind of media spotlight and are a possible role model you shouldn't be allowed back on any kind of public platform. Try for a compromise, give him a job on the training staff or summat. He gets to keep his livelihood, but his demotion is a clear sign that what he did hasn't been forgotten. Surely that would send the right moral message, but FFS having him run on to the pitch with thousands of people cheering him on can't be right. Can it?

Think of all those child Blades fans who ask and have to put their parents in the unenviable position of explaining EXACTLY what it is Evans went to prison for. It's just an awful and sordid situation. Why didn't he just take a retainer wage from SU and sit back and think things through before going back training with them. He's shot himself in the foot by brassnecking it looking like he's not bothered about what has happened.
Heyho

Dock - A sensible solution you mention there. 2 years away his fitness levels will be shite. SU could issue a statement that they believe in British justice, he's served his time blah blah blah (usual shite) and that until his appeal has been heard they will offer him a position with the back room staff.
fartcatcher

If he genuinely wants rehabilitation into football, then I think he would better off starting again with a small club, even semi pro, and using his knowledge and skills in the community.

Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to see it this way. I think he genuinely believes that there is nothing wrong with his, or his supporters behaviour, and that he can go back to Sheff U as if nothing has happened.
bearing

Grind wrote:
Full disclosure: I do have a bit of a dog in that last argument.

My dad was killed by an underaged drunk driver back in 1965 who, through a technicality, served no time (rich daddy) and, at least to my knowledge, is still happily free and driving around to this day.


Bloody hell mate, that's horrendous.
Grind

bearing wrote:
Grind wrote:
Full disclosure: I do have a bit of a dog in that last argument.

My dad was killed by an underaged drunk driver back in 1965 who, through a technicality, served no time (rich daddy) and, at least to my knowledge, is still happily free and driving around to this day.


Bloody hell mate, that's horrendous.


I obviously never knew anything different - so I can't complain - but I really wish I'd been a better kid for my mother whilst she was still here.

Unfortunately, stuff happens - think about Alex Cairns.
fartcatcher

Not trying to restoke the fire here.
But the horrible malicious tweets posted by both pro and anti-Evans camps have made me realise what an evil bastard Twitter is in the wrong hands.
Heyho

fartcatcher wrote:
Not trying to restoke the fire here.
But the horrible malicious tweets posted by both pro and anti-Evans camps have made me realise what an evil bastard Twitter is in the wrong hands.


And isn't that what it's coming to - trial by social media
Frazier Cranium

Exactly.

Send him down!

Oh he has been, now he's back.

I actually believe that some people will not be happy until Evans kills himself.  But anyway, at least, at last, he has shown some contrition and sympathy for the girl (all in a written statement mind).  He should have done this within days of his release, the cretin, as a lot of crap would have been avoided.

He still protests his innocence so therefore, saying sorry for a crime he believes he didn't commit would add up to an admission of guilt for rape, I get that, but it's extremely difficult to sympathise with him when he has taken so long to issue a decent statement.
Dock

I think Gordon Taylor has been unfairly treated by the media and he meant well with what he said and was in no way trivialising what happened to fans at Hillsborough, all he’s guilty of is not putting his point across clearly. But both him, Steve Bruce, and anybody else in a public high-profile position should just shut the fuck up until the case has been reviewed and concluded.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30742947
Frazier Cranium

Taylor has embarrassed himself, that's all, but blimey he should know better than that.
Late Doors

Twitter isnt the evil bastard. Arseholes are the evil bastards, always have been its just these days everyone has a media platform to spout their shit. Things like Twitter bring many things lots of them good and dangerous to the power holders. That's why they don't like it, that's why they try to blame "it" for arsehole things that arseholes say. The trouble with freedom is that everyone is or should be free to say what they like even arseholes.

Yeah Taylor should know better but he is guilty of nothing else. Thats another thing about social media. Every fucker now has a supreme sense of entitlement to be offended at anything just so they can get their tuppence 'appeny's worth in.
Frazier Cranium

The press went to town on him as well.
Dock

Late Doors wrote:
Twitter isnt the evil bastard. Arseholes are the evil bastards, always have been its just these days everyone has a media platform to spout their shit. Things like Twitter bring many things lots of them good and dangerous to the power holders. That's why they don't like it, that's why they try to blame "it" for arsehole things that arseholes say. The trouble with freedom is that everyone is or should be free to say what they like even arseholes.

Yeah Taylor should know better but he is guilty of nothing else. Thats another thing about social media. Every fucker now has a supreme sense of entitlement to be offended at anything just so they can get their tuppence 'appeny's worth in.


The thing I find alarming about how the media went at Taylor was that it was clear to anybody with half a mind that he didn't mean any offence towards the Hillsborough victims, but so-called credible news sources like the Beeb were calling for his blood within an hour of him saying it.
Frazier Cranium

I'm not sure either way about the 'calling for blood' observation tbh Dock, it's a separate matter but I keep hearing that the BBC is politically biased.  I keep hearing that accusation from people from all areas of political parties.  Did the BBC really say Taylor is bang out of order etc or did they report that his remarks have caused a stir?

I noticed a Mail headline, not front page, saying something akin to 'Taylor says Evans case is as bad as Hillsborough' which is a disgraceful comment.  No surprise of course.
fartcatcher

One of the things that baffles me about this whole sordid affair is the support Evans has received from the millionaire father of his grlfriend.

This man has bankrolled private detectives to discover the girl's new identity(ies), funded the 'Save Ched' web site, and most recently offered to make up any lost sponsorship money to Oldham if they offered his daughter's beau a job.

If, while I was going out with mrs fc, I had been caught shagging an at best semi-comatose woman in a Premier Inn, after my mate had finished with her, whilst being watched and filmed by my brother, and then sneaked out via the fire escape, I would have been told never to darken her door again.

To be honest, if I'd committed such a cheap and tawdry act, I'd never have dared look her in the eye again. Or my parents.

Karl Massey's behaviour is bizarre. Perhaps he's always wanted the world to know he's a big shot and this has just given him an opportunity. If that's the case, why not just buy a club, give Ched a job and be done with it.

It desperately needs someone sensible to get a grip on this and convince the public that football is more than 'a man's game', and understands it's responsibility as our national sport. The trouble is I can't think of anyone. The FA and FL should be providing leadership but seem indifferent/paralysed with fear.

I've got no sympathy for Gordon Taylor. He's the most highly paid Union rep in the country. He's more interested in making sure his members get cheap match tickets that they can sell on the black market than the ethics of the game. This isn't his first gaffe. He ought to know by now when to say something and when to say nothing.
Dock

Frazier Cranium wrote:
I'm not sure either way about the 'calling for blood' observation tbh Dock, it's a separate matter but I keep hearing that the BBC is politically biased.  I keep hearing that accusation from people from all areas of political parties.  Did the BBC really say Taylor is bang out of order etc or did they report that his remarks have caused a stir?

I noticed a Mail headline, not front page, saying something akin to 'Taylor says Evans case is as bad as Hillsborough' which is a disgraceful comment.  No surprise of course.


Fair point. Bad choice of phrase on my part. What I was getting at is that the Taylor quote wasn't even a newsworthy event yet the tossers in the news content dept. at the Beeb thought it was.
Frazier Cranium

I think Taylor has passed the time to leave, I'm quite sure he has done more good than bad for his union but nonetheless, your leader needs to be practically faultless, that's what i meant about him being an idiot, saying something when really there was little needed to be said.

Sounds like Evans' girlfriend's dad is a rich prick, such a rarity eh.
Dock

Frazier Cranium wrote:
I think Taylor has passed the time to leave, I'm quite sure he has done more good than bad for his union but nonetheless, your leader needs to be practically faultless, that's what i meant about him being an idiot, saying something when really there was little needed to be said.

Sounds like Evans' girlfriend's dad is a rich prick, such a rarity eh.


I think everything currently to do with professional football has passed its time to leave. It's a grubby little business. The whole sport is completely fucked if you ask me...................I know you won't.
Frazier Cranium

I agree, don't need to ask!
fartcatcher

So - he's innocent. No new evidence - just an ultimately successful campaign to discredit the girl by exposing the fact that he wasn't the first to shag her.

Quote:
The appeal court judgment – which was made before the retrial, but can only now be reported – allowed new evidence from two witnesses who gave testimony about the complainant’s sexual preferences and the language she used during sex. It led to her being questioned in detail in open court about intimate details of her sex life.


If, as he boasted when arrested he could 'Have any woman he wanted' in Rhyl, it's surprising he couldn't find one who was conscious.

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