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Late Doors

Anyone got any answers ?

Because it looks like our world leaders, you know, governments, royalty, presidents, Oligarchies, financiers, the 1 percent who own over a half of the worlds wealth don't seem to have a clue.
fartcatcher

I don't think the 1% give a shit.

Can't understand those who complain about taking in Syrian refugees, whilst advocating bombing the crap out of Syria.

Things are going to get worse before they get better.

D1's job takes her to Paris regularly so obviously a bit worried - although I expect ISIS to go for a completely different target next time.
Grind



https://youtu.be/vnVuqfXohxc
Heyho

It's scary. Aside of stooping to their level with an 'eye for an eye' approach (i.e. going and randomly killing thousands of innocent people) maybe a joint UN exercise using the likes of our SAS and other units, maybe even the Foreign Legion and go in and systematically wipe out as quick as possible all the extremists.
Sir Bulldog Craggwood

https://youtu.be/Ct3BsyF64gM
sheeps

Heyho wrote:
It's scary. Aside of stooping to their level with an 'eye for an eye' approach (i.e. going and randomly killing thousands of innocent people) maybe a joint UN exercise using the likes of our SAS and other units, maybe even the Foreign Legion and go in and systematically wipe out as quick as possible all the extremists.




They are estimated at 30,000 strong with tens of millions in the bank.
sheeps

Grind wrote:


https://youtu.be/vnVuqfXohxc



Exactly.
sheeps

No answer from me.

Obliterate IS and there would be another to replace them.

It's not a new thing is it? Goes back many many centuries, this is ours.

We will not be travelling abroad for some time, it will be dangerous enough in the UK.

Bruv went to the France game, he was ok, I was bricking it for him.

We have been to Italy a couple of times recently, you see troops on the street as a matter of course, it's time we did the same.
Grind

Sir Bulldog Craggwood wrote:
https://youtu.be/Ct3BsyF64gM


Sadly, I suspect that assessment is pretty much all true. I can imagine there are a few hawks who'd really like to push the magic button and see what their nuclear toys could achieve, but that would be an horrific short term solution with worse long term consequences.

Ho hum.

I'm not sure "enjoy" is exactly the right word to use, but I do find Homeland compelling viewing.

Although the permanently boggle-eyed Carrie does annoy somewhat.

Humans are fucktards. We'll be gone soon enough.
Grind

Here's the source of my latest avatar thingummy - a diversion from impending Armageddon for those of you who love dogs that might cheer you up a bit...

http://megpricephotography.tumblr.com/post/108750883325/collie-flower
Grind

Speaking of impending Armageddon, I'm not sure these wild turkeys raiding my bird feeders earlier today should be quite so brave - it's Thanksgiving here next week.....

smiling badger

Really have no idea how you combat against the likes of these cowardly,suicidal, barbarians.
Bombing the fuck out of Syria and the likes will do nowt when we have the brainwashed likes of those that have been raining terror in France recently.
Just a matter of time before the UK will be hit big time im afraid.
Sir Bulldog Craggwood

Sir Bulldog Craggwood wrote:
https://youtu.be/Ct3BsyF64gM


He's right though - these boys who represent the militant crazy end of Islam have been trying to take over the world since the time of Muhammed their first great general

Smother the moderates with love and fight the extremists to the death
Cutsyke

Mandatory spliff every morning.
fartcatcher

That Homeland clip was fucking good.
I wonder what Isis made of Andrew Neil's on air rant?
Dalek

Going back to the original question, I do not have a magic answer.
 
However, the solution lies with all of us.

No matter how terrible the atrocities that this group of terrorists carry out, we must all - and I mean all of us - not let them affect our way of life.  We must all carry on doing the same things that we enjoy and living the style of life that our culture is built upon. Go and visit restaurants, theatres, sporting events.  Spend time with your friends, for that is what the essence of our life is all about.

Whilst the events in Paris were very disturbing, and we were told that there was credible evidence of an attack being planned in Belgium, to close down Brussels in the way that was done allows this sick minority to affect all our lives and the opportunity to claim some sort of reward for their actions through the opportunity for propaganda.

There does need to be a longer term solution to eradicate this retrogressive band. The solution will not be effective in the long term by individual countries taking jingoistic action, even if this is understandable and undertaken with the best of intentions.

But there are clues as to what may be about to happen. ISIS have attacked people from many states – not just those that are widely reported via UK media. They are imposing a barbaric governance over local people on a daily basis. The UN Security Council recently unanimously and rapidly called for all member states to take action to eliminate ISIS. The way to progress is for many countries to take unified action, including ground operations, in those countries where ISIS has a foothold to dismantle to organisation.  Key components of this action are to have a clear strategy to return these affected states to a position where they have an effective government (importantly, not a western world imposed government, but an initial government determined through diplomatic approaches) with the opportunity to trade with the world community; there must be strong representation in this unified force by the wider Muslim world. Many Muslims have been killed by ISIS and the actions of ISIS are roundly condemned by Muslims as not being Islamic.

There would be obvious dangers in placing armed forces from US, Europe, Russia, China, India, Australia and the Muslim world in the same theatre, but with clear objectives and a UN defined and unanimously agreed measure of a successful operation and a clear exit strategy, the world has an opportunity to show that it will not allow threats to world security to develop to uncontrollable levels.

Ironically, what ISIS see as a strength may well be the factor that leads to their downfall.

They have oil.

They have this from seized facilities and this is providing an income source. The economic powerhouses will not allow this situation to persist or proliferate.

There is also the factor of terror cells distributed throughout society.  These people need to be bubbled out of their community by local members of that community. Local people will have some knowledge of those people who have “radical” views and who ultimately have a negative effect on the portrayal of their community to the wider world.  Coupled with the strangulation of funding, these cells can eventually be rendered ineffective. Maybe it is possible that most of the people in these cells will change their approach and opt for peaceful existence.

These measures will not rid the world of terrorism as there will always be factions wanting to commit such actions, but we need to minimise this risk and above all, stop these factions from growing into a wider problem.


Dealing with the current situation will mean difficult decisions will need to be taken. Inevitably, there will be lives lost. There will be more lives lost if the world does nothing.

Above all, we need to hold our politicians to account, to be able to deliver a unified approach to the benefit of the wider world community, and to ensure that any actions taken to rid the world of ISIS are not used to expand economic or political power within the considered area.

The West should not be the world’s policeman – this is the function of the United Nations.

The world, through the UN, must now show that it can defend the status quo, commit to a peaceful existence and develop troubled states to become world community members by taking unified measures to remove any developing threats to our diverse but peacefully coexisting societies.

It will not be easy or quick, but something does need to be done.





As a footnote, do the mathematics everybody. The chances of being directly involved are very small. So, smiling badger- enjoy your new son’s life and encourage him to be a positive member of our society; fartcatcher – support your daughter’s travels to Paris (my daughter went there with uni for Paris Fashion week just after the Charlie Hebdo attack and her attitude was that she was not going to let them affect what she wanted to do); sheeps – enjoy your trips abroad, but maybe choose your destinations wisely for the comfort of your family.

But, importantly, carry on with your lives - otherwise you also become a victim.
Heyho

It's bound to have some influence Dalek. I mean would you pick up a cheap flight to Egypt at the moment? Yet the country (or at least those decent folk in it) rely heavily on tourism for the well being.
Heyho

I may have an answer.

Two of the worse videos I have ever seen have been the beheading and last night the line of men knelt down and then ISIS systematically going up to each one and shooting them at close range in the back of the head which practically blows their face off. Then they are pumped full of bullets as they lay dead on the floor by masked men.

Every school, new channel, you name it in the world needs to shows this barbarism on a regular basis. Let's see how their support continues then
Grind

You would think that should logically work, but I suspect that there will always be a small percentage of kids that might process the information in such a warped way that it could make them more extreme.

Think about the schools you attended - I bet you can think of at least one wrong 'un who would've spent the rest of the day pretending to blow the brains out of their classmates and teachers.

You can only hope that the 99% can keep the 1% in check.

Tricky.
Late Doors

The sheer horror if it all kind of makes me think I don't deserve an opinion from the comfort of an armchair.

The only thing im sure about is that just dropping bombs on Syria is not going to help and will make things worse. Yes there is an enemy of the world and civilisation out there that has to be defeated but right now they are calling the shots (literally as well), have been for a long time and will continue to do so unless the world unites, tackles the real sources, makes intelligent long term plans and stops reactive and destructive responses that only feed and escalate the horror

"Humans are fucktards. We'll be gone soon enough". indeed
Heyho

Grind wrote:
You would think that should logically work, but I suspect that there will always be a small percentage of kids that might process the information in such a warped way that it could make them more extreme.

Think about the schools you attended - I bet you can think of at least one wrong 'un who would've spent the rest of the day pretending to blow the brains out of their classmates and teachers.

You can only hope that the 99% can keep the 1% in check.

Tricky.


I'm ex Grammar School remember . We trained the social misfits there. They are all high court judges now.
fartcatcher

Bombed Sadaam - ended up with Al-quaeda

Bombed Al-Quaeda - ended up with ISIS

Bomb ISIS - ?????

That Einstein bloke had it right. 'Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.'

I don't know where ISIS get there money from and who they buy their arms from. If we could staunch the supply of both, it would slow them down a bit.
Grind

It's all basically whack-a-mole, but with different animals.
bearing

Any money for the poor?

No, feck off we're all in this austerity shit together!

Any money for the NHS?

No, feck off we're all in this austerity shit together!

Any money for Police, Fire?

No, feck off we're all in this austerity shit together!

Any money for Education?

No, feck off we're all in this austerity shit together!

Any money to bomb the shit out of folk that just melt into the local population?

Too fucking right we've got money for some warmongering!
fartcatcher

Quote from Goering

Quote:
Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.
The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.
Plastic Man

Ever wondered what sort of costs are involved? This is from last year in relation to Iraq, so a little bit dated, but it will give you a rough idea...

http://news.sky.com/story/1342768...ll-airstrikes-on-is-cost-taxpayer

Quote:
Calculating the anticipated cost of Britain's contribution to the anti-IS coalition is imprecise at best. According to a Ministry of Defence report to Parliament in 2010, each Tornado flight costs £35,000 per hour.

Typically, two Tornados fly each mission, lasting anywhere between four and eight hours. So let's land somewhere in the middle: a six-hour mission costs a basic £210,000. Then we have to consider the cost of the missiles.

The expected payload would be four Paveway bombs, £22,000 each, and two Brimstone missiles, £105,000 per unit. So let's say that's £508,000 per aircraft in total, just a smidgen over £1m per mission. If they carry Storm Shadows at £800,000 a pop, then the cost rises considerably.

But then of course we should bear in mind that each aircraft might not drop its full load, so the figures distort further still. And the Tornados need to refuel en route. Although operating costs for the Voyager aircraft aren't available, it is considerably more efficient than its VC-10 Tristar predecessor.

The TLAMs, Tomahawk Cruise Missiles, carried on the Astute class submarines, are the most expensive item - £950,000 a pop. It's unlikely many, if any, of these will be fired. As I said, although the individual figures are accurate, the calculations are almost impossible to make, so dependent are they on mission-specific variants.

Please treat my sums with the dose of cynicism they deserve, they are merely a crude, early examination of what Britain's involvement in Iraq might cost the taxpayer. The true cost will be made available at a much later date by the MoD and National Audit Office.

One other thing I'd like to mention: it is very possible that the very RAF GR4 Tornado fast jets that take off on the first bombing missions over Iraq won't be in service by the time the mission is complete, whenever that might be. Only three Tornado squadrons remain, next year another will disband leaving just two. They are the British military's only true ground attack aircraft, to be replaced, sometime in the next decade, by the new F35 Joint Strike Fighter.

The F-35 is a fantastic aircraft, but it is overdue, over budget and faith in it being delivered by 2020 is diminishing. Perhaps this mission will reward the Tornado squadrons with a small extension to the life in service - and what a busy, prestigious life it has been for that aircraft.
bearing

Pretty sure Osbourne suggested last year that money would be no object in crushing Daesh if the time came for air strikes.  This is what sickens me about folk in power, they tell us daily that there is no money for things we rely on daily but for war there will always be cash available. This is one thing that I like about the likes of the SNP, Corbyn, Green Party etc. the fact that they understand (or give the impression) what ordinary life is like.
Late Doors

fartcatcher wrote:
Quote from Goering

Quote:
Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.
The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.


i suspect he may be one of those terrorist sympathisers with cynical commy talk like that

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